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  1. #1
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    What will the babies look like????

    Ok, I have been doing a lot of reading and with some of the feedback from here I have it narrowed down to what they are.

    The hen is a normal mauve.

    The cock is an opaline, no sure if he is a violet or cobalt. He has purple on him, and in some light he looks purpler then others. I can't seem to get a good pic of him.

    I want to know if anyone has a clue what color babies they will have.

    I have all my budgie pics in the photobucket, heres the link.

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/

    Anyone with help on if hes cobalt or violet, and what the kids will look like I appreciate the help.

    Thank you all!
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

  2. #2
    Moulting Finch's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    I have a pair exactly like those two. They make similar colored babies like the parents. Here is what my pair produced:

    The blue one here is one of the babies.

    (Those two are from the same clutch also, brother and sister )

  3. #3
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Well, I am no professional. And it is impossible to say for sure what the outcome will be...but I am going to say you have a very attractive pair! With Opalines it is easier determining the babies' sex as well, because the babies that are opaline will be the opposite sex of the parent that is opaline. So in your case any opaline babies will be female. So some babies will be opaline others not. Most or all should be standard (no special wing markings). I'm guessing you'll get some Cobalts, Violets, Mauves, maybe a grey. Nothing too surprising. Juts beautiful babies that resemble their parents!
    Good luck!
    Ben
    BEN'S BUDGIES

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    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Thank you for the input guys.

    Those are some pretty babies Finch. How many pairs do you have?

    At least I will know the gender of the babies really easily with this pair. Thats always good news.

    I kinda figured there would be varying shades of blue. Which is a good thing because blue is my favorite color!
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Moulting Finch's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    I have 3 pairs now with 2 females that are still waiting for the right one to pair up with and they will do it soon because there are plenty of males in the aviary to choose from.

  6. #6
    Spank me...I iz naughty!! Tailfeather Sir Peter of Canada's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Sometimes nature can fool you. If you have followed "Pipping and Peeping" at all you will see that the three babies we now have don't look like their parents at all. The colouring on them came as a complete and utter surprise (mind you, a very pleasant surprise) to us.

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Quote Originally Posted by bensbudgies
    With Opalines it is easier determining the babies' sex as well, because the babies that are opaline will be the opposite sex of the parent that is opaline.
    Ben
    That's not exactly right. Females have an x and a y chromosome, males have two x chromosomes (opposite of people). The opaline gene is on the x chromosome. Since females have only one x chromosome, if they get the gene for opaline they will be visually opaline. In order for a male to be opaline, he must carry the gene on both x chromosomes. In order to get a male opaline, both parents must be opaline. I suppose the male could be split for opaline and if paired with an opaline hen he could give that particular gene to the baby and the baby would be opaline as well. If you have one opaline and one normal parent, only the females have the potential to be opaline, no matter which parent is opaline. For example, Rainbow (father) was opaline and Skittles (mother) was not. All females they produced were opalines, because that is the only gene Rainbow could give, and females have only one x chromosome so they inherited that trait.

    As far as what colors your birds will produce, wow who knows? I bred two blue series pieds and got vastly different looking babies from the parents. It's part of the excitement - waiting for them to feather out so you can see what you've got! At least they should all be some variant of blue.
    Rainbow


  8. #8
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Yeah I know what you mean HeHot. I just hope my babies are even half a pretty as yours are!

    Ok Rainbow, I think I am getting the hang of that chromosomes thing. So, the only opalines I will get will be female. But even all the females don't have to be opaline?

    I got an email today on this, it was kinda confusing.

    "You have violets. This is the most difficult bird to predict what they will produce. I have been breeding and exhibiting them for 20yrs. Visual violets are not to be bred together for good healthy and long lived babies. You can put a couple Violets together and get 3-4 shades of what we call violet or sky violets in the young and probably only one violet baby. It is best if you can find a green male and breed him to a violet female and his male babies will be dark green and will probably throw more violets than with a blue bird. Only the dark will make more violets. A light green can throw violets and females can throw violets as well. Budgies are not split to violet or Yellow Face. Rarely will a bird be dominant to violet. If you get one it is priceless. If it throws young that are dominant to violet they are even more valuable. Not only to sell but to produce one of the most sought after but hardest to people to pay for.
    Good luck and good birding."

    I'm not sure if he is saying that both my birds are violets or just the male. I am almost positive that she is a Mauve. He titled the email "Dark Factor Budgies". So he could be talking about both. I wrote him back and asked. I will let you know what he says.

    Thanks all!
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    I think all the females will have to be opaline. Not sure, but if budgies get a chromosome from each parent, and opaline is carried on x, if it is a female the only chromosome the mother bird can pass on will be the y chromosome (other wise the bird would be male). Let us know what the breeder says about the dark factor. I'm very interested in genetics, and it's always a plus to learn from a breeder!
    Rainbow


  10. #10
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    OK, Here is what he wrote back....

    Violet is really hard to understand in breeding. They never breed all true "Visual Violet". If one pair does then they are dominant and if you have a pair that produce young that live 2yrs from that pairing with all Violets you have a priceless pair.

    Violets produce a half dozen shades and some have hardly any purple or violet visible. The Pet Trade has come up with colors for them all as a way to talk about or sell a pet. A male or female is not split to violet as most other colors as is Yellow Face. You feel free to breed YF together but NEVER true or visual violets. Most people don't believe me but it is in the Genetics Chart established in the 50's. I have been trying all I know to make birds that breed visual violet but when I experimented with my best 2 birds I learned a lot. Out of 13 birds only 2 visual violets and they died B4 reproducing. All 11 others were fine but they were not violet on the surface but some have produced a Visual Violet or 2 in a clutch now and then.

    It has been a real challenge. I like that but If I HAD it to do it over I wouldn't start. I would just buy them and not use up my good birds, trying to hit that dominant male or female to violet.

    Thats what he said when he wrote back. What I am getting out of all of this, is that the blue birds are in fact "Violets", just not "Visual Violets". The colors we use, like he said (Cobalt, Mauve, etc.) are so we can describe the birds. Breeding "Visual Violets" together is bad for them, makes them week and they will not survive.

    Thats a lot to learn in one day! Whew! LOL!
    Last edited by missdawne; 02-22-2005 at 04:08 PM.
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

  11. #11
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    OK, one more reply I received in different forum, thought it was interesting....

    Colour Expectancy

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've seen your album and if you are referring to the pair in the first photo then it appears to be a cobalt. Opalines tend to be brighter in colour than normals of the same shade.

    First of all a cobalt is a skyblue+1 dark factor; while a mauve is a skyblue + 2 dark factors. Since chromosomes come in pairs your cobalt can be denoted "nd" and your mauve "dd". The offspring have to take a chromosome from each parent with respect to colour and the combinations will be:
    50% nd= cobalt; 50% dd= mauve. That's as far as color goes.
    Now with the wing pattern it is a bit more complicated. Opaline is what we called a sex-linked characteristic so it is carried on the male gene only of which Cock birds have 2 and hen birds have 1 (the other being the female gene). When an opaline male is mated to a normal all the Males will be Normal and all the females will be opalines. You will therefore determine the sex of the birds while still in the nest!

    Expectancy Table:
    25% Normal Cobalt Males
    25% Normal Mauve Cocks
    25% Opaline Cobalt Hens
    25% Opaline Mauve Hens

    A last word about the Violet. The violet is a very variable factor and sometimes manifests itself in a very subtle way. It is difficult to recognize its presence in Sky, Mauves and Greens. It becomes visible when it appears on the cobalt when we get what is called the Visual Violet but not all cobalts who have the violet factor show it clearly! Genetics is no easy subject.
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    My goodness, that is a lot to take in at once...although it does leave me a little more confused. I have a wonderful little pied hen that I have been halfheartedly looking for a yellowface whitewing violet male to breed her to. (Halfheartedly because although I'd love to find one I have serious doubts I will.) I call her cobalt, but she is really two-toned in that the coloring across her mantle looks very purple (like the color of a blueberry), but the coloring on her chest and rump is (I think) cobalt. She came from a yellowface skyblue Australian pied hen and Rainbow (in my signature) who I believe is a yellowface opaline whitewing blue pied. He was a pastel-colored bird, except for the feathers on his rump, and they were a dark slatey-blue color. I wouldn't have expected to get any purple looking birds from them, but I have gotten three with varying degrees of a purple hue. I guess I too am wondering from your first breeder's response whether all blue birds carry a purple gene? And if mauve is a +2 dark factor then I don't think I know what mauve looks like. I thought it was a very light color. Maybe it's the term darkfactor that confuses me. And the statement that budgies are not split to violet or yellow face confuses me too. Both of my parent birds were yellowface, but the majority of the babies were normal whitefaces! I know they have to be able to produce yellowfaced babies because of their parents... Do you know how to tell if a bird is truly cobalt or is violet? Whew, my head is spinning...I'm wondering if it would not be a good idea to breed my Blueberry to a violet, if I can find one....
    Rainbow


  13. #13
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    ok, in my pictures the dark hen is the mauve, she looks almost grey, so like he said she would be a skyblue+ 2 dark factors....as for the cobalt (skyblue+1 dark factor), hes just a little darker than a skyblue but not visually purple, if he really "looked" purple then he would be a visual violet....I got the same thing you did about all the blue birds have some violet in them...apparently blue/violet bird breeding is a very confusing genetic mess thats hard to figure out! LOL
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Oh wow, I was way off! I would never have guessed that was mauve. Would you give me your opinion on something? Two of my birds I would say are cobalt, but in some places they look purple. Since they are not purple all over would they be considered cobalt or violet?
    Rainbow


  15. #15
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    From all I have figured out, they would be cobalt. Only the visual violets are really purple all over. Crazy eh? Thank you so much for figuring all this out with me!
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    You're welcome! It was fun. I've definitely learned something new.
    Here's a picture of my cobalt/purple budgie. Purple across the back, cobalt between the flights. I love her.

    Rainbow


  17. #17
    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    WOW!!!!!! She is beautiful! She looks really purple in that picture, I'm no expert, but I would think she would have to be a violet of some sort, I would post that pic and ask some other people too. I want to know. She is a lot more purple than my cobalt male.

    Very Very Pretty !!!!!
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Thanks for the compliment! She is such a sweet bird too. That's a good idea about asking others about her color - Maybe one of the people who responded to your questions about violet would know. I'd like to know what color she is too. The cobalt male I have isn't as obvious as Blueberry, but across his back and on the back of his head he has some purple tint too.
    Rainbow


  19. #19
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    hey miss dawne,

    Where did u get the genetic information from ? as i can do genetics in my head but not exact as that.

    Please let me know
    Thanks
    Dave H
    p.s - as i have calculators for cockatiel & lovebird mutations but not budgies.

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    Tweet-aholic Brand New Egg missdawne's Avatar
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    Re: What will the babies look like????

    Dave

    I posted the same question in a different forum and those were some of the replies I received.

    There is also info all over the web, here is one link I found.

    Makes my head spin!!!! LOL.

    http://www.angelfire.com/ak/whisperingwings/page4a.html
    Fortune's Flock

    Budgies: Blue -n- Tweety, Opal and Berri, Nanny -n- Daisy, Pecker, Pickles, Buggs and Kiwi and Sonny -n- Apple
    Tiels: Syd -n- Babe
    Finches: Mr and Mrs Finch, Bert, Ernie and Jill
    Sun Conure: Mango

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v701/missdawne/?
    http://www.putfile.com/missdawne

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