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  1. #1
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    ok this is how the situation is at the moment.. everyone knows i have a tiel named sweetie.. and am getting a DH conure...

    BUT.. a situation has now arisen.. which has put me in a position i dont rightly know how to cope with.

    My aunt and uncle have a green female IRN.. 9/10 years old.. been with them for that entire time period.. but they have had a baby last yr december.. and as i suspected it was coming.. they cant or dont want to deal with Avo the IRN anymore.. and she has turned to screaming her head off.. which is making the situation worse. They are not interested in trying to fix the situation.. and as Avo bites.. it has , in their eyes, become a risk to the baby who is now crawling.

    so tonight .. amidst the screaming avo.. laughing baby.. they told my mother.. either i take her.. or they are putting her out...
    my first reaction is extreme sadness on the part of avo.. who is loosing a family.. extremely upset AT them for doing this to her..

    but i dont have an idea what to do.. do i take her.. put her in a room.. with her cage toys etc.. and work with her daily.. and see if she will fit into the household..
    she is not handable by anyone other than them two.. out of the family i am the only one she will permit near her without attacking.. and the only one other than mom and dad.. that can give her juice.. she has been taught to drink out of a straw.. and doesnt drink any other way.. .. so if she doesnt get given juice.. she doesnt drink.. she is out 24/7/... not even being put into her cage when they are not home.. only time she sleeps in a cage is at night.

    other than the biting she is adorable.. <from a distance> says luv luv.. and cuddles.. but how do i do this.. with them living 5 minutes away.. place her in an upstairs bedroom.. and spend time with her.. and hopefully she comes around.. and deny them visitation rights? i cant see them visiting her being good for her emotional health..

    and the other question is whether i can do this.. im not sure i can cope.. but what are the alternatives..

    seriously.. anyone.. advice.. suggestions.. a vote of confidence? i sooooo need to know what to do at this point...

    to them both..
    Leandre

  2. #2
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Dani.. if youre online.. and can chat.. or anyone else please let me know.. as i really need to talk to someone who has or is doing this..

    I get experience really quickly in "rescuing" birds
    Leandre

  3. #3
    Loki - love in bird form Four More Babies Hatched! peachee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    hmmm, that's tough. i don't think you should take in a bird if you do not want it either as that will lead to further problems. But my best suggestion for now would be, maybe take it in indefinitely and try to find it a loving home? Or find a no-kill bird shelter that will adopt her out. Do you have a local parrot club that you can advertise her? I don't have too much to suggest but taking in a problem bird that you aren't ready for might be challenging... if you are up to it, good luck!
    Lisa

    See videos of Loki and the boys here!

  4. #4
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    no shelters.. def none with a no kill policy... and in south africa.. unless she is WELL socialized .. no-one is going to adopt her.. am i prepared.. HELL no.. im hoping that is i do choose to do this.. that my good intentions will help.. the fact that i am willing to learn.. i am quite willing to work with her... and try rehome her.. but wouldnt that be too traumatic for her.. and cause more problems.. i dont want to compound issues.. by helping her.. and then having to rehome her.. and the problems return.. if she fits into the family.. perfect....
    ......
    Leandre

  5. #5
    Ferret Freak Tailfeather PhoenixK's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Oooh, that is such a tough situation... If only you lived here in the US or any other country where bird rescues are within driving distance!!! I hope I'm not out of place for saying this, but I think that what your aunt and uncle are doing is just rotten. You don't just go and get a bird as a substitute for until you have a "real" baby! Argh...

    If you are willing to work with her, I think you should take her in. Obviously the aunt and uncle aren't willing to do the same, and I don't see anyone else around who's up to the task. It seems like, if you take her in, you have three options -- either rehome her immediately with someone who *knows* birds (but you probably won't find someone on short notice...), or you can rehabilitate her and then rehome her once she's at a state that a "normal" person can care for her. The last option is to keep her for good. I don't think it would be compounding the issues by helping her and then rehoming her -- first off, you'll be able to tell when she's at a state to be adopted out, and also, she's pretty much guaranteed to be in a better state than she is now.

    I guess the main thing is to go into it with a certain kind of mindset, and to decide whether this is a foster bird or whether she is your bird. If you decide to foster her, you can handle her in a way that she doesn't bond too closely to you -- in other words, you can encourage her to be more independent, while still giving her the attention she needs.

    And this may just be my vindictive side talking, but I think that after you take the bird in, you have no obligation whatsoever to your aunt and uncle. You have every right to "refuse visitation" if that's what you want to do. I just HATE that people are willing to dump their pets the second a baby comes along.

  6. #6
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    yeah you echoed alot of the feeling in the house at the moment.. even my mom is shocked. And my denying visitation wasnt being vindictive.. <although heaven knows i would have reason to be> but for avo's sake.. to have them come in every couple of days.. and cuddle and coo.. would not help her.. would just confuse her even more.

    If i do this.. i would like to get her to a point of accepting a few other people as well as me.. so she is totally ANTI people.. so if we choose to rehome her.. the adjustment might be easier for her.. if she accepts other people. She isnt bird friendly.. my biggest worry.. besides loosing a finger.. so she would have to be WATCHED constantly with the other birds.. or kept away from them at present. they had a 2nd IRN.. that was a special needs bird.. had a illness that prevented him from growing full feathers out.. and avo used to pluck the couple of feathers he DID grow.. so this is a definate SERIOUS case.

    I doubt of finding anyone locally to help out.. as you see tons of add of people trying to rehome parrots.. and alot of them are friendly. so a biting screaming bird.. not good odds quite honestly..

    i personally think it would be good for avo to be a single bird.. with parents.. that will give her the attention she needs.. im not sure a multiple bird household would work.. BUT.. i am willing to give it a shot.. if she accepts the situation.. and there isnt a threat towards my birds.. then she stays.. but i have to think of my birds first.. but even if it doesnt work staying with me.. id be dedicated to working with her as long as it takes.. and then homing her with wonderful people.. just the initial working that has me nervous..

    honestly there is no question as so whether id take her.. if im honest with myself.. if its a choice between me.. and being put to sleep.. there is no real choice for me.. and that what makes me mad.. they KNOW im a soft touch.. and they willingly put me in this position.. knowing that i wont say no..
    BUT having said that.. they have a suprise coming.. i will say yes.. but.. its by MY rules.. which means they dont see her.. she doesnt need the extra trauma.. no.. "but we miss her we want her back" .. no 2/3 yrs down the line "but now she is sweet.. now we want her" none of that..

    do i sound harsh?
    Leandre

  7. #7
    Ferret Freak Tailfeather PhoenixK's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Leandre -- you have absolutely the right approach. Your aunt and uncle might see you as a "soft touch," but I think you're the one who's seeing things the most clearly here.

    i will say yes.. but.. its by MY rules.. which means they dont see her.. she doesnt need the extra trauma.. no.. "but we miss her we want her back" .. no 2/3 yrs down the line "but now she is sweet.. now we want her" none of that..
    If they had the NERVE to ask for the bird back once *you* helped her to become a people-friendly bird... You are absolutely right -- once they give you their bird, it's no longer their bird. And when I said the thing about being vindictive, I didn't mean that *you* were being vindictive -- I meant that I kind of felt that way myself. ^^

    Do you know any other people in South Africa who own birds? Are you friends with any bird lovers? Even if they can't offer you any "help," it might be good just to have a kind of support system that's local. But even if you don't, it sounds like your immediate family is willing to be supportive, so that's good!

    I also think it's quite possible for "non-bird" birds to live in a house with other birds. It's just a matter of keeping the birds separate. Like, Ebo and Pokey don't get to have any direct contact, and that works out fine. The only way it would be a problem is if Avo is aggressive enough to "hunt down" the other bird. By the way, is she fully flighted? (Just because that might give her the ability to attack another bird -- but I don't know her temperament as well as you do.)

    I think a good place to start might be to let Avo think of you as the "food" person. In other words, at the beginning maybe the only real interaction the two of you have is you giving her special treats like millet, birdie bread, etc. And if you notice Avo eating on her own or eating the treats you gave her, you can just sit with her while she eats and even eat your own food at the same time. Food seems to be the big factor in starting off a relationship with an animal -- offering food is the universal language of peace. ^_^

    Do you know anything else about her? Like, is she mostly cage bound or does she get to come out and play a lot? What kind of food is she on? That whole juice thing is just bizarre... Poor Avo...

    As angry as it makes me to hear about your aunt and uncle dumping their bird, it could be that as a result Avo will be the one who actually benefits from the deal. Obviously, she wasn't getting what she needed in her first home, and you'll definitely be able to do a better job!

    Remember, we're all here for you!

  8. #8
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Well avo has been the baby of the house for nine years.. she has full run of the house.. her cage and playgym and play area is set into the corner of the lounge.. and she is out from morning till bed time.. when she goes into her cage and get carried to their bedroom.. where she sleeps.

    She gets veggies in the morning.. and juice.. she is on pellets which is out all the time.. she gets a MINUTE amount of seeds. she gets passionfruit out during the day for her liquid intake.. up until dec they both worked full time.. so she would be out by herself the entire day and then get loved when they got home.. at night she gets a bowl of veggies with calcium supplement added.. and she eats that before bed time..

    she is full clipped.. actually very drastically clipped.. more severe than Sweetie ever has been. and doesnt associate wings with flying. in fact she has never been flighted at all.

    thing that worries me.. is with the baby crawling.. and starting to pull herself up on things.. Avo has a permanent "nest" up.. which so happens to be a trash can they had when they ran a internet cafe.. which she adopted.. and if the baby pulls herself up on this can.. the feathers are going to fly.. and she WILL attack.. and if that happens.. i really fear for avos safety at that point.. as all parents will protect the baby FIRST..
    so im hoping to convince them either to start thinking ahead.. or take me up on the offer to show them some tips..

    but honestly.. i think it would be best for avo to be rehomed.. the family spoke about it.. my dads no home yet.. so we dont have his input yet.. but it would def be a rehabilitate.. and then rehome situation.. simply because i see avo happy in a one bird home.. with LOTS and LOTS of attention.... and honestly probably the only attention would be good.. which i wouldnt be able to justly give her.. and with her feelings towards babies.. i dont want to wait till i have one.. to rehome her.. as that would make a bad situation worse. and as im 24.. marriage and children are def in the future..

    If helps knowing i have people here to give advice when i really need it.. luckily she was fine being alone in a room for years.. so me putting her in the spare room.. with the door closed.. and visiting her for a couple of hours.. a couple of times a day.. should work just fine.. first thing that would have to be done.. is a bigger cage.. she now has a round on.. with almost no space.. as she just sleeps in it. but i would leave it till she is a little more comfortable and then look at a nice BIG cage..

    and then the first thing would be gaining her trust.. and helping her gain a little independance by getting her to drink by herself.. i was thinking maybe a bottle would help for her.. as she knows how to drink from a straw.. maybe put the edge of the straw over the tip of the drinking bottle.. and see how that goes.. and get her onto some water aswell.. as now.. she only drinks CERTAIN juice.. from specific brands.. and touches nothing else.

    I think this is more my aunt than my uncle.. and i think it will be really hard on him.. but right now i am more worried about avo than them.. they can look after themselves.. she cant.

    thanks for the support.. and advice.. it doesnt seem so bad when ive spoken to someone about it.. i was just very nervous.. the last thing i was to do.. is add to her emotional baggage..
    hugs
    Leandre
    Last edited by Panthlee; 06-07-2005 at 02:10 PM. Reason: unfinished

  9. #9
    Baby oihane's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Okay, first..a dumb question: What's an IRN? Indian...ringneck maybe?? Only thing I can think of.

    And second..OMG! I can't believe your aunt and uncle! That's horrible! That's such a horrible situation for you! I guess I agree if you are willing to work with her, at least foster her. Perhaps you could find a good and loving owner that would be willing to continue to work with her. It sounds like her owners taught her soooo many bad habits. ONLY drinking through a straw?! WHATT?! And does she only drink juice? that can't be good for her...I would think water should be what she drinks, and have some juice as a supplement or something. And her being so unsocialized...*sigh*. the poor bird.

    I guess the only advice I can offer is to maybe try fostering her if you can, and advertise for a suitable bird owner. You can screen people and everything and make sure they would be a good owner. It's a thought anyway.

    I wish you luck, this is such a tough situation I hope everything works out ok!

  10. #10
    Banned Tailfeather Squawk and Howl's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    yes, if you are not interested in keeping her or cannot, a temporary foster is the way to go. i know you are probably not in a position to leture your aunt & uncle, but man- give me their contact info & i'll send one heck of an email! what jerks!

    bless your heart for taking this on- you are doing the right thing...

  11. #11
    Moderator Tailfeather Community Moderator notredamebird's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Wow, Leandre!

    Yeah, your aunt and uncle are in the wrong with their sudden about-face. The attitude also shows that in the future they not good owners for her/him.

    If you are willing, how about adopting her and seeing how it goes? Since she might not be a good flock mate, perhaps you could keep her in another room from your other birds. Then, you could see how it goes. If she tames down, then she might be a good bird for you to keep around--or, as others said, perhaps she could find a new home. The fact that she accepts you on some level IS a good sign. In time, it's also very possible that she will adjust her attitude. In any case, it sounds like you are her best hope right now and that no one else will really know how to deal with her.

    How comfortable do you feel about it? Is this something you are up to? (If not, maybe somehow, somewhere, you can find someone who would be willing to take her, who is already a bird person. Are their any bird clubs, perhaps in the city? There must be an aviculture network somewhere...)

    If you do take her, I think you are absolutely right in imposing "your rules." YOU are the one who has had to rescue her, giving up your time and funds. They, if they are suddenly rehoming her and making it clear that her needs are no longer important to them, are giving up their right to her. If you feel them visiting would be troublesome, then they should not be allowed to see her. Period. I don't think you have to be mean about it. Just make it clear that you don't think it is best, and that since you now have to take care of her, it is very important that she attach to you rather than to them.

    And if they ever ask for her back, I agree with you (and everyone else): she's YOURS now, and they've already shown that they aren't good owners for her. No way!

  12. #12
    Bird Momma Hatched! Panthlee's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Thanks for the response every one..

    Deep down i know doing this is the best thing for her.. im still a little shocked that they did it.. seriously.. even though i knew it was coming.. deep down i hoped that they would think of avo..

    i texted them last night saying that if i didnt see myself up to it.. whether they would consider rehoming with another person.. and no response.. and speaking to my mom last night.. she says they are planning on giving her to me.. and then its a happy situation.. i look after her and they visit.. so when ive moved.. this is going to have to be discussed.. seriously.. either they havnt thought this through.. its not the first time they've said this "why get another bird.. you can have avo" etc etc.. Aunt was also upset when i got Kewpie.. because she said that she was going to give me avo.. and this has been for the last 4/5 months now.. and either they need to give her up... or shut up and stop complaining.. she is screaming constantly now.. but to get her to be quiet.. they yell.. which doesnt help as we all know.

    as for adopting her.. we will have to see how it goes.. and see if she will be alright in a multi bird household.. and thats the deciding factor.. if she doesnt adapt to a multi bird household.. i will work with her and socialize her.. and try retrain some habits.. and then look for a ULTRA stable.. and understanding home.. hopefully with someone who can keep me up to date.. because this cannot happen to her again.. so it needs to be a forever house..

    to answer a few of the questions.. She drinks no water.. only juice.. like i said a specific mix and a specific brand.. only from a straw.. they use cartons of juice that you would give kids.. it gets juice into the straw and the straw gets held out and she drinks from the end. so thats hurdle one...

    She is a indian ringneck.. green.. female.. and her having a "nest" constantly i personally dont think is a good idea..

    i have some photos of her.. http://community.webshots.com/album/307354105pfUrXh will show you what she looks like.. and her raggedy apperance showing some plucking issues.. infact now it the first time she has a tail.. since the death of the other one.. she was a tail plucker..

    so i am expecting the plucking to pick up again..which is one reason i cannot have them breeze in and out of her life at whim.. which is also one reason i dont think keeping her on a full time basis will be a good idea.. simply because they are going to visit.. and the confusion she will go through every time she sees them.. is not fair to her...

    like i said im hoping they will reconsider.. and i can help them with the process.. its not that im too young to lecture them.. simply i firstly dont think it will do any good to go on about how mean etc etc.. they are.. and secondly im not really vey outspoken.. but given my partial vet assistant training.. they should do the smart thing and at least listen to SOME of what i have to say.. even my father who isnt really a bird person.. can give advice on this situation..

    Avo is screaming.. because she wants attention.. and the days that she gets 15/20 minutes attention.. she doesnt scream.. now it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure THAT out.. she is so easily pleased by just a little love and attention from them.. which is what makes me sadder than anything else.. the fact that she requires so little to be happy.. she is not NEARLY as demanding as sweetie who needs to be with me.. or close to me at ALL times.. i mean in comparison avo is easy..

    so lets see what happens when i talk to them.. and see how serious they are.. and if they then choose to give her up.. then i start playing hard ball with them. once she leaves their house.. she will be no longer theirs.. and i'll take responsibility. good thing im still studying and not working yet.. poor baby
    Leandre

  13. #13
    Teenager tielguy's Avatar
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    Re: URGENT.. need URGENT Help and opinions..

    Yup, if you take the bird it should be your bird, your responsiblity, and you should be free to make decisions for what you think is in the best interests of the bird.

    Keep in mind that Avo my pass on some of her bad traits to your other birds. Instead of just having Avo scream, she may teach all of your birds to scream. And also keep in mind that the safest thing to do is to keep Avo away from your birds for a period of at least one month, just to make sure that everyone is healthy.
    You say it best, when you say nothing at all.




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