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Thread: Update on 23 egg clutch.

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    Update on 23 egg clutch.

    Is it normal for the father to be the only one feeding the babies? It's not like the mom is being neglectful or anything, she's usually in there with him while he is feeding them. It is possible that she feeds them when I am not checking, but I don't think she is because she is never as dirty as dad. This is their and my first clutch, and I have not read anything that says that the dad will do all the feeding. It's not a problem, I just think it's odd.

    I also have another question regarding this same pair and clutch(es). My female has laid 17 eggs, most of them have been fertile. I know that this is a double clutch and luckily I have another pair that has started laying eggs who can foster the most resent eggs laid, because unforunately, yet like I said luckily, their eggs are not fertile so I have just been replacing them. I guess my biggest worry is how many eggs is too many? I have called my vet once before when she had laid 12 and he assured me she should stop laying once babies start coming, but baby # 5 hatched this morning and egg # 17 was laid last night. Now he is on vacation and wont be back for another 2 weeks. Should I find and call another vet? She is very healthy, has a great diet and gets lots of calcium. She shows no signs of stress, no problems delivering and is just happy as a cockatiel.
    Last edited by avecbleu; 11-08-2006 at 12:08 PM.

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    Re: Normal Parenting Behavior???

    Hi! Welcome to TF.

    HULLO! 17 eggs in a row? Holy buckets! Yah.. that is too much!

    Okay. Now I can answer the rest of your post. Mom likely isn't feeding at this point. Probably just dad. Reason for this: Mom is laying and needs all of her energy/food and calcium reserves for this. So she sits with the babies and the eggs and keeps them warm. This is her function right now, but dad is the upchucker.

    My hen Patchie tried to double clutch on me ( But the diff was, the babies were near to fledging (3-4 weeks old when she tried for the second clutch). She squeezed out three before I stopped her. (Took away the nest box). I set up a warm spot for the babies on the bottom of the cage and they were just fine. Daddy tended the lil'uns and mom well... laid. Once she decided she didn't want to lay anymore (adverse conditions), she ignored the eggs in the bottom of the cage (I left them there) and she began helping Dad with the feeding again. Soo... yep! While laying, the hen won't feed.

    Now.. question for you. When you take the fertile eggs from the hen who is laying.. are you replacing the eggs she's laid with dummy eggs? (Like the infertile eggs from the other pair's clutch?). That's important! If you take an egg away, you MUST replace it with another egg, or you are part of the problem. Birds can count.. .. don't ever think they cannot. They will lay another egg to replace any missing ones. So you absolutely must replace any egg you take from her with a dummy egg or an infertile one. If you're already replacing eggs with dummies or infertiles, then excellent! You're on the right track, but we still need to figure out what's stimulating her to lay so much.

    Continuous laying like this will eventually cause a problem. The average size of a cockatiel clutch is usually 5 eggs.. sometimes as large as 8. She's already over 2 LARGE size clutches by 1 in a short span of time. If your vet does not see this as a problem, get a new vet.

    You are right to be concerned!

    If you have ANY other questions, please feel free to ask. We're here to help and "hen health" is like my #1 "thing" as a bird owner.
    Visit Apache, Neo, Silver, Taxi, Tieka, Trinny, Buzz, Tiggy, Paris, Persephone & Hektor at Nikkie's Cockatiels More of what the flock is up too at their blog. Tiel Tales
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    Re: Normal Parenting Behavior???

    Thank you for your answer Nicole. I know is this crazy or what? I was hoping for a good clutch size, but my goodness.

    And I know duh, after I submitted the questions I thought "umm, doesn't one have to do with the other?"

    Yes, I have been replacing the infertile eggs with dummies. I have done a lot of reading, because I bought my birds when they were young and have had over a year to research, and I thought nothing could suprise me I'm ready for anything. Wrong!!!

    Thank you also, I will call another vet tomorrow. The vet I have is a pretty good one, he just figuered she would stop laying once the babies were out, and now I can't get in touch with him.

    And I do have another question. What if she lays more eggs then my other pair? Should I still try to have them foster if they are all fertile? or should I be worried that they will abandon or start destroying the eggs?

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    Re: Normal Parenting Behavior???

    I am concerned with this many fertile eggs rolling about between the two sets of parents, the babies are going to be the ones to suffer. Eventually, there will be more mouths to feed than parents who are capable.

    How many fertile vs. Infertile eggs or chicks do each set of tiels have?

    What lighting conditions are you instiling round the clock in your aviary?

    Does Dad still mount mom?

    This is pretty unprecidented. Usually, a hen won't lay like this. Double clutching is usually spaced at least 2 weeks apart. So this is pretty amazing that she just keeps pumping out eggs. Frightening actually!

    Please let me know what your lighting conditions are...

    and also: This other pair. How many clutches have they raise? Also on their first go-round?

    If I were you, I'd brush up on some handfeeding techniques because some of these chicks may need your help. In fact, I can almost bet on it. Especially the younger ones in the group. It seems they always get the shaft. Are you able to intercede and handfeed if necessary?

    Hopefully I can help some more and we can work together with the information we compile here.
    Visit Apache, Neo, Silver, Taxi, Tieka, Trinny, Buzz, Tiggy, Paris, Persephone & Hektor at Nikkie's Cockatiels More of what the flock is up too at their blog. Tiel Tales
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    That we'll find one another
    In that big somewhere, out there"~


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    Re: Normal Parenting Behavior???

    So far the second pair has had no fertile eggs, and have stopped laying at 5, 2 of the eggs still have a few days before I will know if they are fertile or not. This is also their first clutch. So far there have been 10 confirmed fertile eggs in the first pair. One (the 15th egg) is with the second pair, 3 will be hatching within the next few days (eggs 8, 9 and 10), and one that had been cracked and didn't make it past the first week. Also as I said 5 have hatched starting on the 4th.

    The lighting conditions are natural light. So the sun rises at about 6:20 and sets around 7 to 7:30.

    Yes, dad (Logan) is still mounting mom (Lori), usually on the day she lays.

    Yes, I will be able to handfeed when necessary. I know what you mean, I have already came to the conclusion that I will have to handfeed to ensure all hatchlings survive.

    Thank you for your help so far.
    Last edited by avecbleu; 09-12-2006 at 06:19 AM.

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    Update on now 19 egg clutch

    Yes 19 eggs. I hope she will stop. I have already shortened their day light hours, but I have not removed the nest box yet because another egg is due to hatch, and I would like them to start feeding it. The only other advice I have gotten is to give Lori a hormon shot. I have read, and my vet warned me, about this and know that it usually works, but it can be very dangerous to a hen who is in the middle of laying.

    Unfortunately, the fifth baby was killed by the father before I removed the older ones. I was very shocked by what happened, he is so gentle and caring towards his babies. I think it was a case of mistaken identity. I'll explain. On the third day of life, the poor little guy got buried under it's older siblings, and had not been fed. I did not notice this until the afternoon because I was away for the night. I thought everything would be fine, because he was getting fed the day before.

    When I noticed the little guy's empty crop, I took him along with the older siblings (crops bulging) out, I had to clean the nest box, and I fed him. I put everyone back into the nest, and I placed the little guy on the outside of his siblings so he wouldn't be buried and his parents would notice him.

    After this I opened the nest box for the parents to come in and proceeded to change the water and food of all my birds. I saw dad go into the box, while mom staied out and ate. Once I was all done dad was back out of the nest so I peaked in to check on the little one, only to find him dead , missing a toe and a bit of a bloody wing.

    I was and still am so sad, I had already come online for advice before I did the cleaning and such, about who to pull (older vs younger) and I still can't beleive it happened. I pulled the older ones the second I saw this, because I still had two more eggs due to hatch, and didn't want something like this to happen to them. Just in case it happened because dad was overwhelmed or something like that. I don't think this is it, I really do think it was mistaken identity, because the other 4 are perfectly fine.

    Any how moving on, another unfurtunate thing happened, the next baby due to hatch did not make it. I think it might have gotten chilled, because we had really cold night. Even though they are indoors, it got very cold in the house. When I noticed the baby still had not hatched in the morning, I figured it was time to help. But the baby was already dead by this time. I don't think the eggs were abandon, because the eggs were nice and toasty, but this one was pushed aside, she had been doing this with all the hatching eggs. I have one more due to hatch, hopefully it will go better, even though this one has a little crack that I mended a little over a week ago, so who knows.

    Now for some good news. The four that I pulled are doing great. They are soooo cute, now I remember why I wanted to start raising cockatiels on my own. They are still a bit young, the oldest being 12 days, but we are just fine. I made them a brooder, after the homemade one I borrowed was not very efficient, and so far so good.

    So far 3 of the eggs I have pulled and put with my other pair are fertile, eggs nuber 15, 17 and 18. Still too soon to know about #19. At least they get to be parents after all, hopfully in the future they'll get it right.

    I just thought I'd share my story with everyone, because I have not found one like it, though I have not read every post either. If anyone has any information that you think might help me, or if anyone wants know more, I'd be happy to hear and answer.

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    wow totally amazing!!! please keep us informed!! and maybe some pics too?? hehehehe wtg hun keep up the good work!!!
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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    OMG that is a lot of eggs and a lot of babies. I hope everything goes well. Sounds like you are doing a great job with them all.Keep us poseted. I don't thin k I have ever heard of a Tiel laying so many eggs at one time ever. Good Luck and keep us posted.
    Robin

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    First picture

    Thank you Sharle and Robin for your nice comments.

    OK here is mom and dad. Dad is on the left, he is a SF Dominale Silver pied/ pearl. Mom is Cinna pearl pied.

    I know it's not a good idea to mix this combination, but when I bought Lori I was told she was a dom silver as well, and by the time they had their 2nd & 3rd molts and her brown really started to show up, they were already totally bonded. I even tried to seperate them, but they were not interested in anyone else. I had them seperated for 3-4 months, and at first when I would bring them out together they just fought anyway, so thought it would be fine. I really wanted them to seperate so I started to bring them out at different times. Finally after almost three months of having no contact with each other, I started bringing them out together again. These are my only 2 hand tame pair I have.

    Again, the first 2 times they were out together they just fought and didn't want anything to do with one another. Then the third day I had Lori, and my husband had Logan, and we were talking with each other when Logan started singing. We thought he was just singing for us, but when we put them down on their play gym he started singing again, and Lori was responding to him. So me feeling bad at trying to seperate them, and my husband making me feel worse (he was against it from the begining), I put them back together the next day, and they didn't even wait an hour bafore they started mating.

    Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there before people started getting after me for mixing these two mutations and such. I will just have to be careful not to sell the silver males to someone who is planning to breed.

    Also I'm going to add pictures of babies.
    Last edited by avecbleu; 09-21-2006 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Fixed picture.

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    Here are some more pictures.


    This one is of baby #1, minutes after he hatched.


    Here is dad feeding the first 2 hatchlings.




    The thumbnails are pictures taken soon after babies #2 &3 where hatched. Just click if you want a better look.
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    Last edited by avecbleu; 09-22-2006 at 02:52 PM. Reason: I fixed the pictures

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    All I can say is holycrap thats a TON of babies!!! Wow! I couldn't imagine trying to handle 5 or 6, but 19? Insane..... your doin great lady, hopefully you can get her to stop laying,for hers and your sake! Thoseare two pretty parents though... really pretty. Everytime I see the grey/whiteones, of whatever mutation I wanna expand my flock a lil.



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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    may i ask what could happen if any of ur silver males were bred? im a bit confused about why breeding these specific birds is not so good? The parents are BEAUTIFUL!! If you were in florida Id so take one of the babies off your hands!

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    Baby # 4 had a liitle trouble so I had to help. Luckly nothing went wrong on my part, s/he was just a bit dry and got stuck.


    Next is a shot of all of them less then 18 hours ago. Oldest to youngest.

    It's kind of funny, the first 2 hatched within 12 hours of eachother, the second and third hatched about 36 hours apart and they are harder to tell apart from each other by size then the first two. It's easier now though because the second one has a little grey in his crest.

    The first thumbnail is all chickies together, soon after #4 was dried. The 2nd is a close up of the youngest, running back to sibs.
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    Last edited by avecbleu; 09-22-2006 at 03:06 PM.

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    Here they are after their first photoshoot, all stuffed and ready for bed.


    Thumbnails:

    First is a close up of baby #3, also running back to sibs. 13 days old.

    2nd is baby #2, ready to have her pic taken, she's not shy at all.

    3rd is of the oldest, he kept turning his back to me, but was too proud to run away. He was my biggest worry in the begining (even compared to #4), because being the first egg of mom ever, the egg was very small. Not only was I surpised when I saw the egg was fertile, I was even more surprise once he was hatched.
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    Last edited by avecbleu; 09-22-2006 at 03:12 PM.

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    Re: 17 eggs and parenting behavior

    I couldn't imagine trying to handle 5 or 6, but 19?
    Luckly but unfortunately, only half of the eggs have been fertile, and three of the fertile ones have not made it. I am a bit dissapointed, but very releived that not all of them have been fertile. It's not that I would want that many babies, it's just the effort mama is going through with producing so many eggs not to have more fertile. But as I said I'm am glad. Less stress on them and me.

    im a bit confused about why breeding these specific birds is not so good?
    It's not that breeding the males will be a bad thing, it just kinda incurages dishonest breeders to be well, dishonest. Since the cinnas can be hard to tell apart from SF dom. silvers, especially to those who are inexperianced with the silvers. Like right now I have a male that is cinna pied, that is so light with almost no brown that he looks almost like Dad (Logan), that when I first brought him home, and after quarintine, I would sometimes confuse the two.

    Since all the male babies will be split to cinna, the dominate silver boys will give both cinna, silver and cinna silver females, and some of the males may be split to cinna. It's just later down the line people wouldn't even know what mutation they have, or what they might get when breeding. This will of course would make beautiful babies, it's just better to keep these types of mutations seprate, and I know some breeders can get mad when people do this.

    Of course though if we didn't mix, we couldn't get new mutations. Not that I know what would come of mixing these to together. Well maybe a dominate cinna, or a sex-linked silver. I know, I know keep dreaming.


    Thank you both for your kind words.

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