We have a big problem and I need some serious advice

**cockatielnewtome** · 12-21-2007, 08:20 PM

So as I posted last night and this morning, we had a baby hatch last night. Tori and Murphy's baby. It is doing well so far. i've seen them both feeding it and they are both sitting on it and the rest of the eggs, being good parents. That's not the problem.

Just a few minutes ago, I was in the bathtub and I heard what I thought was Tori's horny dance, i.e. the sound she makes when they are mating. Tony hurried into the bird room to check it out but it was not Tori and Murphy. It was Patches and Murphy. Patches is Tori and Murphy's baby from their first clutch. She will be 6 months old on Monday. So... This is a problem that really has me sick to my stomach. Tony said he saw it yesterday too and didn't tell me. He stopped it both times. Okay so....

1. Please tell me Patches is too young to lay eggs!

2. What do we so this doesn't happen again? I thought cockatiels mated for life usually and I would have thought Murphy would know that Patches was his baby. I'll keep Patches locked up for now while Tori and Murphy are raising the babies but I don't think this is a good solution long-term.

3. How do we stop Tori and Murphy from mating again as well? We simply do NOT want anymore chicks after this clutch. As exciting as it is, we have reached our limit on birds in our house and we don't want to be breeders. After the new clutch is weened, we can lock Murphy up but I don't think that's fair to do to him all the time.

4. I never thought I would be saying this and I don't blame anyone for thinking badly of me, is it horrible for me to think about rehoming Murphy? Nikkie, I'm crying as I write this just thinking about it. Is it at all a possibility for him to come back to live with you? I love him dearly but we can't get rid of Tori. She's been Tony's bird for 11 years. Murphy is also very aggressive to Peaches and Cheese and Murphy have gotten into so many fights that Cheese has been locked up full-time for about 2 months now and that's not fair either. I hope someone has other solutions so this isn't an option I have to actually explore. I just dont' know what to do. Somebody please help me! I love our flock so much and it pains me to think of breaking it up.

**Oh Mowsie** · 12-21-2007, 09:23 PM

Michelle.. check you're PM box. I don't want you to think I didn't see your post.

**Oh Mowsie** · 12-22-2007, 01:03 PM

Okay, I can understand your panic but let's take a look at the situation and see what is what before we jump to the worst case scenario, which would be rehoming Murphy. Afterall, that would be terrible for him and Tori. He's bonded to her as a mate, and that would be very stressful to both of them.. like a forced divorce.

Something I don't advocate. Secondly, he's a dominate male, despite the fact that he was "once" my baby... so bringing another dominate male tiel into my flock would be ..omg... I see feathers and bloodshed. I doubt Silver would welcome his son back with open wings.

So... first things first, lets look at the set up you have and see what can be changed to work with your flock. That's crucial to flock dynamics. Its what I have to do during "hormonal madness". I have 6 hens in my flock and 3 males. Two of my males are bonded to mates and believe me, they'd love nothing more than to breeeeeeeeeeeeeeed, but I take preventative measures by getting tough when I have too. Sometimes it means separating the hens and the "he's" into their own cages, but it has to be done to preserve the sanity.

This time of year is a cockatiel hot bed for wanting to breed. Lots of babies are bred if you notice, and my flock is driving me nuts right now, so its probably why Murphy and Tori picked now to go to nest. Knowing the hot times of year, (Seems like there's three of them) will help you.

As for Patches, she is old enough to drop an egg, but its unlikely that she will just because she was mounted. If she is in nesting mode, its a different story, but cockatiels can mate without laying. If she hasn't shown any signs of being nesty, she probably won't lay an egg. Still, just to be on the safe side, I'd start covering her cage early in the evening and putting her on some hormonal therapy. Even Peaches could benefit from it, if she shares a cage with Patches. Like I said, this time of year is hormone city so covering their cage early in the evening won't do her any harm.

And Murphy .. well he needs to be in his cage tending his babies, and not out and about where he can mount his daughter, so keep him locked up with Tori. Best way to prevent that. You'll probably have to alternate their "out times". I had to do that when Patchie and Silver were nesting.. no way would I leave Patchie and Silver's cage door open - the other birds were too curious and would try to get into their cage to "see the babies".. Silver would have freaked out and ran them off. They're very territorial when they're nesting. Can't blame them there. So, I'd definitely alternate out times... Patches and Peaches and Cheese, come out, play, fly..etc. Then back into their cages. Then Tori and Murphy come out and play, fly and go back into their cage. Cage doors need to be closed for the birds who are inside their cage and if birds are getting nosy about Tori and Murphy, cover their cage so no one get's bit if someone climbs on their cage. Its for their own safety. I had to do that too with my flock.

As for Murphy being territorial and aggressive, its hormones. Male tiels get that way. Once this clutch has been raised and the babies rehomed, its NOT just the hens who need the hormone therapy. The MALES need it too. If it means Murphy needs his own cage for a while (in the same room so he doesn't feel isolated) but so that he can cool his jets, then so be it. That way you can cover his cage when needed, etc. It may be that he needs to be housed separately from the hens and allowed out to play with them. I've had to house Silver separately from Patchie when she plucking him out of hormonal frustration. It didn't seem "fair", but he loved her and it would have hurt him more to go to a new home because she wanted to pull his feathers out. So.. three months, he lived in his own digs and saw her on supervised visits on the play gym. (He was in the same room though). But in the interim, Silver and I got closer. He picked up a new song and whistled it to me because his new roost was right by my computer. After three months, I relented and Silver (with new feathers), went back "home". 2 months later, he was missing half his feathers again and back into his own cage he went.

. After his mohawk grew back again, he went back to his "wife" and this time, she left him alone. (for now). But horror of all horrors, Tiggy started doing it to Paris! (She must have learned it from Patchie) So far, only one "separation" for Paris though. Tiggy didn't like being away from her sister so I guess she learned her lesson. Sometimes, its not easy to be a bird owner, but you have to weather the hard times with them as well as the good times.

The most important lessons that I've learned with having them, is that hormones will change my birds into little monsters, almost overnight, but if I stay on top of them, I can keep things from getting out of control. Covering the cage, separating them if I have too, cutting back on their food and spritzing them with water, (making sure they're soaked), changing their cage around, limiting their out of cage time so they can't hunt for nesting spots, making sure the grate is in the bottom of the cage and making sure there's nothing in the cage they can use to make a nest with are ALL ways I manage hormones when they start acting up.

**cockatielnewtome** · 12-22-2007, 01:39 PM

Thank you so much, Nikkie. I'm feeling much better and under control about the situation today. We have changed our setup today. Here's a picture of the new cage arrangement:

That's Cheese in a small cage on top of the filing cabinet. She's locked in all the time for now.

Then the biggest cage is Murphy and Tori and the new baby Snap. We're leaving their cage door open for now and they are taking turns leaving the baby to come out to get food. Sometimes they are both in there with the baby, like now actually, but they are never both out at the same time.

Then on the right is Patches and Peaches. They are staying locked up for now too. I plan to bring them into the living room with us sometimes but they're not going to be out and about in the bird room until the babies are older. Peaches has no interest in the eggs or babies. She never did the first time either but Murphy doesn't even really want her in the room. Patches has been down on the bottom of Tori and Murphy's cage playing with the wood chips but hasn't shown any interest in the eggs or the baby and neither Tori nor Murphy minded her being down there which was weird, but I still didn't think she needed to be sniffing around down there so it's best if she's locked up with Peaches for now. They get along well. All of the cages have new toy arrangements. Everyone seems happy. I think Peaches and Patches are about to take a nap because I hear their little beaks grinding now. (Actually, by the time I'm rereading what I wrote before sending it, they now both have their heads on their backs and their eyes closed - so cute!)

Patches has not seemed breedy or nesty at all and I asked Tony how she looked when Murphy was on top of her and he said she looked confused like she didn't know what was going on, not like she was into mating with him. We'll start covering them earlier just be on the safe side.

Tony and I are both off work for a while now for Christmas/New Year's so we'll be home and can make sure everyone is doing okay with the set up and that everyone gets some out of cage time.

We hope not to have to leave things like this forever. Our birds are used to not being caged but, at least for a while, this is the way is has to be. After the new babies are weaned, Murphy may have to be locked up in his own cage for a while.

**birdlady1** · 12-22-2007, 03:43 PM

Changing the subject ever so slightly, where did you get that wonderful little wooden house that's in between the two cages? I've been looking for something like that for my horny 19-year old cocktiel. Augie has been hiding under newspapers and making an absolute mess while he calls to his 3-year old girlfriend.