"Small" vs. "Big" Parrot treatment

[McDenny]

First of all I just want to make a disclaimer and say:

This thread is NOT directed at anyone in particular!

So I've thought about this often...and was just curious as to what your thoughts are. Feel free to agree, disagree, add opinions, observations, etc. Me? I just feel like venting!!

It seems like "little" parrots (I'm referring to mostly budgies, lovies, tiels. etc.) get stiffed a lot in the moral issues of parrot raising. People seem to think (whether consciously or not) that "big" parrots deserve better treatment than little ones. Why? Because they are bigger, fancier, prettier, more expensive, more talkative, easier to breed? I don't know what the reasoning behind all this is. Why do little birds so often wind up in cruddy little cages with seed diets and no vet care? Because so many people think a $20 bird is not worth taking to the vet, or that a $20 bird is not worth buying a $100 cage for.

I especially notice this in regards to breeding. Some I see on this board, or in ads in the paper and on craigslist. But because they are easier to breed and cheaper/easier to sell, it's somehow deemed okay. People stick birds in a cage and give them a nest box all the time. Backyard breeders, just like those "free kittens" you see in the paper. Like I said in some other thread, if it were people breeding Macaws, Cockatoos, Conures, etc., I thing there might be a bit more of an outcry. And why? Just because budgies and tiels are easier to breed and sell off to people somehow makes it more okay to breed them?

Now I am not saying there aren't responsible breeders out there. But with so many birds winding up in shelters and crappy homes, it's frustrating to see people who have NO IDEA what they are doing stick two birds in a cage and watch what happens. It's much more common that I like, and that's very unfortunate.

Anyway, thats my rant for now!

[RedFeather]

I think small parrots get stiffed in general. They get stiffed by some parrot people, who for whatever reason, seem to think that because they are small and easier to care for, that it means they are not real parrots. That peeves me to no end. Sorry, but my budgies and tiel are every bit as much of a parrot as a macaw or cockatoo are. (Well, technically, Beau is a cockatoo. ) They may not be the same exact species, and some of their needs may be different, but they are still parrots, and deserve to be treated as such.

We do have our two budgies (Yellow, female and Cheerio, male) in the same cage together. However, we don't give them nesting material, or encourage them to breed and so far, they haven't. Cheerio tries, but Yellow won't let him. They've been in the same cage together for years, and so far, haven't bred. So... *shrugs* Being that they get along and all (well... they will sometimes have little harmless squabbles, but that's it) - we keep them in the same cage to be companions to one another. I don't think that they will breed (or we wouldn't have them together - if it were obvious that they were thinking about breeding, we'd probably separate them), but if they did, we'd do our best to be responsible about it. I certainly wouldn't give away birds to people who couldn't care for them properly.

But true, you shouldn't haphazardly breed just because "it's fun" or whatever. That's something that should definitely be researched and thought out. And more respect should be given to things like that. I personally feel that people shouldn't be breeding their animals unless they do a lot of research, and can provide a home for the animals should they not find good, respectable homes.

[jaime.mcclelland]

A few weeks ago I was at a flea market and they had a pets section with HUNDREDS of budgies, tiels and lovebirds stuffed into cages for sale. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen. There were no large birds there. Only small ones.

I definitely agree that there is a typical stereotype of all birds, where it is deemed that the large birds are more intelligent and more important. Bigger parrots are easier to show in zoos and animal shows because of their size, bright colors and general appearance. They are very good talkers. Talking is a HUGE aspect of why parrots are sold in the first place. Unfortunately, if the bird doesn't talk, which not all do no matter what the breed, it is no longer appreciated. What they don't know is how sweet these little birds can be. They are just as charming and can just as easily steal your heart away the moment you lay eyes on them. And, correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe the record of the largest vocabulary held by a bird belongs to a budgie.

So in conclusion, I definitely agree with you on this argument. And i'm very pleased that someone brought it up, because it is really a bigger issue than most of us realize.

[sunbirdx]

Well, I sometimes feel two ways about it. Sometimes, little birds get to be birds. They can have large flight cages and live in groups, because they are easier to care for and a manageable size. Very few large companion parrots live in a flight cage or in a social group.

But overall, I agree. Cheap pets get cheap treatment, and that is that. Look at pet rats! By far, one of the smartest animals you could ever own, but they are cheap and breed readily, so people treat them like garbage. Same with budgies, tiels and lovies. They are small, they have clutches instead of one or two eggs, they don't cost a lot to keep, so there is an excess of them. And people who buy cheap pets want cheap pets, so they feed cheap food, cheap cages, and don't bring their animals to a vet. I think when people buy a 1000 dollar bird it is WAY more of a financial loss if the bird dies or they have to give it away than a 9.99 parakeet. So they take better care, and prepare more (in some cases).

Personally, I am amazed at how inexpensive Enoki is to keep, even on the very best food I can buy her. She has two types of organic pellets, germinated seeds, greens, toys, treats, a nice cage, a play-stand etc. etc. etc. and I probably haven't spent more than 200 bucks.

[elfhome]

I do think a lot of it has to do with greed. If an expensive bird gets sick there's more incentive for selfish people to take good care of it. Talking skills, showiness, and impressive sizes are some of the reasons why the wrong people buy parrots.

Bella's initial vet visit plus her cage and accessories added up to something like 3 times what I paid for her and that was only the beginning. Some people I knew thought I spent too much on her (they can go stick their heads in a bucket!) Last time I checked no other person in the world is as soft, snuggly, warm, or adorable as my little Bella-boo. So there! :P

Small birds can be easier to care for than large ones, but I wouldn't underestimate them. in a way I think they CAN be better adapted to captivity because they breed so fast. Unlike the larger, more difficult to breed species the smaller birds are generations further from their wild ancestors. So you can breed for more docile, friendlier birds, etc.

[ellenant]

Yes, it is not only small birds that are treated like that,
as said above, mice and rats are treated the same.
Look, everybody thought I was crazy that I had a 200$
tumor surgery done on my pet rat!
It is just this stupid attitude.
It is cheap, so it is easier and cheaper to replace it than
to "repair" it.
It is this "waste and disposal" attidute lots of people
have, not only to pets but to other possessions as well,
and most of the time, pets are regarded as possessions,
too.
Look, my sister has a horse, so an "expensive pet",
and she asked me the other day if I have a new bird
(after my old one died). "Yes", I said. -"Which one?"
"A parrot", I answered. "Oh, something cool?"
_"No, I got another cockatiel..."
-"Oh, you are sooooo boring..."
Well, I explained to her why my cockatiel certainly is NOT
boring!!!!!
But try to explain to a "normal" (=non bird crazy) person that
your cockatiel or whatever is as intelligent and as cuddly
as a pet cat or dog...
they just look at you.

[nightlady]

I agree that price probably plays a bit part. A parent, for example, isn't likely to buy their kid a pet that costs thousands of dollars. A kid isn't likely to take very good care of it, and even if they wanted to... the parent is the one opening and closing the purse strings.

As for adults, it's probably similar and chances are they don't take care of themselves much better than they take care of a pet.

[elfhome]

As for adults, it's probably similar and chances are they don't take care of themselves much better than they take care of a pet.

It's like trying to get someone who's idea of veggies is the sad piece of lettuce on a Big Mac to understand that birds need greens and good veggies. Bella gets the best food I can give her, and I invest my time and money. She has perked up my diet a bit, since I can't let all the veggies sitting around go to waste.

Whenever people see Bella they always ask about her. Now and then some people get bored when they find out she can't talk. Most people just react with surprise when they find out how smart she is, and how friendly she can be. So she has changed people's perceptions but it's a shame that people just assume a little bird like Bella doesn't do much of anything.

[Mindibun]

I agree with you guys 100%. It's a shame that not many understand the beauty of the smaller birds and their personalities. At the bird store where I work we have EVERYTHING from finches to Black Palms. And when people ask me what my favorite bird is and I tell them "cockatiels" ... well, I've gotten some really weird looks. They are very under appreciated.

I think finches should be added to this list also. They may not interact the same way tiels or budgies or love birds do, but they most often get the harshest treatment since people will stick 5, 6, or 7 in a tiny cage (small birds only need a tiny cage right? ) and then when all of a sudden they have 25 finches, they come to us and ask if we'll buy them. No. Learn some responsibility.

Ugh, I hate people. I really do.

[sunbirdx]

I think tiels are under-appreciated because they are also way less flashy then most other birds as well. So not only are they cheap, but they are mellow and gray. I also think they are HANDS DOWN one of the sweetest, easiest birds to own, but people often don't look past the exterior or the talking ability. Do you think African Grays would be half as popular as they are if they weren't such great talkers? I doubt it.

[BareFootAviary]

Ellen, $200 for a tumor removal??? Wow, that is an insane price- not saying I wouldn't pay it, but that is just expensive! I used to have at least 5 rats at a time and I had a few that got a couple of tumors. I had a great vet take them out for $25 each, no extra costs. I would have paid more, but thankfully it was cheap.

I agree. People breed for money and because the small birds are easy. That is why I do not lower my prices on birds. I'm sorry, but if you want a bird, you are not going to haggle me down. These are living creatures that need the same care other birds need. I only ever once had someone ask to lower a price on a Lovebird and I told them, "No, my prices are set because if you cannot afford to buy the bird, how will I know you will be willing or able to afford all the other things it will need?" They didn't ask again and they did buy the bird. I get updates all the time.

And not all small birds are easy to breed- let me tell you! I once talked to a breeder who had a pair of DNA sexed, bonded Lovebirds that wouldn't breed to matter what! The guy was amazed when I told him my first pair started breeding within 1 month of bringing them home! And they weren't even bonded before then! But like any bird, breeding is a huge responsibility and the birds still need all the care any other bird needs. They still need good fresh foods, toys, a large cage, clean dishes and cage, etc. They are still living beings that feel.

I like nothing more than to come home after a long school day or day of work and sit in the bird room while all my birdies fly to me to greet me. I think that is what makes having birds worth it.

Also, I think that when people breed (like I mentioned before), they think they will be making money- yeah right! Just going to the sales alone, I spend way more than I make! I sold 1 baby and a few Hidey Huts this last sale, but ended up coming home with less money than I left with because I bought a whole ton of food, toy parts, and new toys!

[BrandonK]

The sad truth is the difference in price...

Responsible people who love birds are going to care pretty much the same for a budgie as they will for a conure or bigger parrot.

People who don't care as much and want a bird because of a spur of the moment desire are going to go for what bird? The $1000 gray? The $400 conure? no. The $20 budgie....and the $15 cage. And once the novelty wears off they're stuck with a bird that has a life expectancy in excess of 10 years. They didn't think about the consequence of their actions and now just buy the cheapest seed and change the water once a week and never let the bird out of the cramped dirty cage.

[Melkor]

I've seen some pretty dodgy behaviour from a conure owner. The shop were I get my seed mix and where I got my second tiel boards birds, and just last week i saw a conure boarding there in a tiny cage with hardly any toys and the dates on the tag said he was boarding for 3 months! Poor little thing was on the top perch running back and forth screaching. And these birds aren't exactly cheap, though we are supposedly in a boom at the moment so everyone here, except me of course, has lots of money.

[BrandonK]

I've seen some pretty dodgy behaviour from a conure owner. The shop were I get my seed mix and where I got my second tiel boards birds, and just last week i saw a conure boarding there in a tiny cage with hardly any toys and the dates on the tag said he was boarding for 3 months! Poor little thing was on the top perch running back and forth screaching. And these birds aren't exactly cheap, though we are supposedly in a boom at the moment so everyone here, except me of course, has lots of money.

Cheap is a relative term, someone who is gone for three months is gone on work.

[sunbirdx]

Or an extended vacation....

[Melkor]

I guess they spent all their money on the bird and didn't have any left over for a decent cage.

[jaime.mcclelland]

People who don't care as much and want a bird because of a spur of the moment desire are going to go for what bird? The $1000 gray? The $400 conure? no. The $20 budgie....and the $15 cage. And once the novelty wears off they're stuck with a bird that has a life expectancy in excess of 10 years. They didn't think about the consequence of their actions and now just buy the cheapest seed and change the water once a week and never let the bird out of the cramped dirty cage.

I completely agree with you, 100 percent. These people assume that because they are so small and so cheap, they must be relatively easy to take care of and keep. WRONG! I've had so many people ask me why I would bother to get a bird, and say "Well, birds just sit there and scream, and they don't do anything and are boring" Someone who has never owned a bird has no knowledge of how hard you have to work to keep a bird healthy and happy. I have had cats and dogs, and they are nowhere near as difficult to take care of as my bird and birds I have owned in the past. Big or small, talking or not talking. Just because budgies are one of the most common pets in the world doesn't mean they're easy to take care of by any means, and just because they cause $20 at Petco doesn't mean you can just keep them in a cage and expect them to just sit there and look pretty. Anyone who wants and deserves to own a bird should do an enormous amount of researching and taking into consideration the life expectancy and commitment it takes to own one. From Greys to Finches.

Being small does NOT mean they don't have big personalities.

[BrandonK]

I completely agree with you, 100 percent. These people assume that because they are so small and so cheap, they must be relatively easy to take care of and keep. WRONG! I've had so many people ask me why I would bother to get a bird, and say "Well, birds just sit there and scream, and they don't do anything and are boring" Someone who has never owned a bird has no knowledge of how hard you have to work to keep a bird healthy and happy. I have had cats and dogs, and they are nowhere near as difficult to take care of as my bird and birds I have owned in the past. Big or small, talking or not talking. Just because budgies are one of the most common pets in the world doesn't mean they're easy to take care of by any means, and just because they cause $20 at Petco doesn't mean you can just keep them in a cage and expect them to just sit there and look pretty.
Being small does NOT mean they don't have big personalities.

I am also amazed at people's concept of birds being noisy things that just sit in their cage and do nothing. Sometimes when I tell someone about the bonds they make with their owners I get the most blank stares and ridiculous looks.

[Melkor]

^ thats why I initially thought birds would be boring pets because I'd only seen them in cages and aviaries. It wasn't until I saw my housemates bird and how bonded it was with her that i realised they could interesting pets. Now when friends come over they are fascinated with mine and love handling them.

[Shade]

Recently I had a friend over with her kids. They were always fascinated with pictures of the birds so I offered her to come and see them in real life.
What wasn't my surprise...the kids fell in love with my lovebird. It really caught me off guard for a moment, since when I speak of my birds, most people dismiss my lovie right away because she's small and they don't consider her to be a "parrot" (plus when that typical first question comes up "Do they talk" and that they learn the lovebird doesn't, whatever small interest she still had is lost). Anyways, the kids wanted to take Piper home. Why? Because she went straight to them and let them do just about anything with her (they referred to her as the "one who loves us"). It made me happy that they didn't think any less of her because of her size.
Honestly, I know that if I wanted to treat her as any less of a parrot than my other two, she'd put me right back to order

[parrotsRmyLove]

I have birds of many sizes. Twelve of them from finches to my African Grey. They all get the same care. I have to admit though if company comes over and they enter what used to/still kind of is my office now office/bird room they go straight to Ruby my CAG. Then come the questions, Does she talk? Can you take her out? Does she bite? I have twelve birds in this room and they glance at the rest but stand next to Ruby. Maybe I will get someone who comments on the Gouldian finches because the colors caught their attention.
They will ask to hold Ruby, I say no she is not to keen being held until she gets to know you but you can hold Rocky my linnie, nope they are not interested they are just interested in the big talking bird.
They will ask about Zoey (P'let) and say what is that. I say the worlds smallest parrot I start to talk about her, does she talk they ask, answer - no. Back to Ruby.
While I adore Ruby she is my baby that I raised since 3 weeks out of the nest. She is now 9 but I also love each of my birds all for the different personalities they have, talking or not. But I guess unless your and avid bird lover and don't have knowledge of birds the talking thing is what they want to know about or witness.

[McDenny]

Yes it's very unfortunate.

And I agree about the finch thing! People think that because they are small, they are okay with a smaller cage. WRONG! IMO they need bigger cages than a parrot their size because they are not as physically interactive, get less out of cage time (in general) and play with less toys. So they need ROOM! I love finches but I would never own one unless I could have an aviary for them.

Anyway, yes I think budgies and cockatiels get the major stiffies because they are so common. People consider them more of a decoration and a hobby than a pet. Often it's the same with breeding. People consider it a hobby, or think it would be cool for their kiddies to see some baby birdies. Also, I see found budgie and cockatiel ads way more than any parrot ads. People are more likely to be responsible if they had to spend money on the bird. If a 20 budgie flies away they think "Oh we can go get another one". URgh! Some people are just so incompetent!

[ellenant]

Hi there,
I would like to answer Brianna...
""Ellen, $200 for a tumor removal??? Wow, that is an insane price- not saying I wouldn't pay it, but that is just expensive! I used to have at least 5 rats at a time and I had a few that got a couple of tumors. I had a great vet take them out for $25 each, no extra costs. I would have paid more, but thankfully it was cheap.""
Yes, that is why people think I am absolute crazy.
When it was done, I still studied at the Munich vet faculty, and I had
everything done for my rat--
X-rays, to check if the tumor had alraedy metastized somewhere,
the best gas/ inhalatory anesthetic (cheap anesthetic means injected,
and this is pretty dangerous for small animals, no matter if rats
or small birds.... gas is always better, but also more expensive),
the surgery was done by the rodent specialist, my rat
got the best intensive care...
I got the best of the best treatment for my rat.
I know, this sound completely crazy, after a new rat just is 5$,
I could have bought a whole army of new rats for that money.
But I felt that I was responsible for that animal, and that it deserves
the same treatment as an expensive dog or a human.
Okay, I spend most of my birthday money on it, but it was worth
it.
I was equally crazy with my sick cockatiel recently.
The bill was 400$ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Luckily, I worked in the vet clinic here, so I only had to pay
90$ for medication and tests, I did all the intensive care
and feeding myself.
For this 400$, I could have gotten a much more flashier
and "cooler" bird, like a rainbow lorikeet or something
like it.
But I wanted my stupid, cheap, boring cockatiel.
Why?
I think as soon as you get a pet, it is your responisbility.
You "own" it, you have to care for it.
It can not talk and care for itself.
And, it is a living thing, a creature like we are, and it deserved
to be treated with respect.
Okay, I am crazy spending all my precious money on silly,
boring cheap pets, but in my opinion, everybody who does
not do that, is just respectless towards other creatures.
Now, people, I am ready to argue this point with you...

[Janeeva]

I can not agree more with everything everyone has said, so for everyone's eye's sake, I won't repeat it

I must say though, that people here have a high interest in cockatiels. I have the bunch of neighbor kids, family, friends and such that are in love with them. Even the ones that don't talk. Budgies too. Though I don't have budgies at the moment, they all had tons of character and were very social. In my home, a larger bird would by by-passed by visitors faster I'll bet. Sometimes I wish my tiels and budgies didn't talk! I can't take the 30 something things Micah says constantly all day long! He is one I wish I had a remote with multiple buttons for, including a MUTE with a time setting on it!!

Some birds however, like my Nana's evil female budgie just a few years old, could care less about humans, doesn't like other birds. Won't come out of the cage, sits at the window and sings away and eats her seeds and has never had a health problem, but gets the upmost care taken of her. At her house, no one there are really bird people. But she likes her for company and her songs. I wouldn't say she's "stiffened" as one of the many many smaller parrots in the world, but that's just how she is. From the time she got her, we tried to socialize her until now. She just would rather be an independent individual, just like some people and would rather eat her seed mix and veggies than pellets.


My birds have cost me a fortune over the years. Illness, food, housing, etc. they're just as demanding as the bigger guys. When they came down with Chylamdia all of a sudden out of nowhere, there was the exam, the medicine, re-eval and considering the alike and non-alike symptoms of the flock members (strangely this started a couple days after giving them some I think Kaytee Egg-Cite or something) to get them better.

As far as breeding for mine. I make sure that the person is qualified for getting one of my babies. They're not just going to anyone. I make sure the potential owner (whether they end up getting them or not) knows about proper feeding, housing, and care of their bird. If nothing else, it's one more person educated right? And no breeding all willy nilly, I have birds with crazy hormones, but they won't nest unless they have a box. Peter, Rahz, Neev and Darla are outside for sunny spring weather in the aviary to fly and go crazy. Monte, Kiz, Micah and Nina are inside. Nina, I just found today with her rear in the air offering herself to the other girls and her brother (who hates her dearly) at just a year and a half old. In the wrong hands, she would be breeding by now.


Anyway, enough nonsense rambling. I'm done!

[RedFeather]

Quoting the stew out of your post, because I liked it.

A few weeks ago I was at a flea market and they had a pets section with HUNDREDS of budgies, tiels and lovebirds stuffed into cages for sale. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen. There were no large birds there. Only small ones.

Aww, that is sad. That's another thing. People have a tendency to just stuff budgies... to cram as many budgies as they can into one small space, and... well... sure, they are very social birds and all, but... don't cram them. How would you feel if you were crammed up in a tiny room with 50 other people and couldn't ever get out?

I definitely agree that there is a typical stereotype of all birds, where it is deemed that the large birds are more intelligent and more important. Bigger parrots are easier to show in zoos and animal shows because of their size, bright colors and general appearance. They are very good talkers. Talking is a HUGE aspect of why parrots are sold in the first place. Unfortunately, if the bird doesn't talk, which not all do no matter what the breed, it is no longer appreciated. What they don't know is how sweet these little birds can be. They are just as charming and can just as easily steal your heart away the moment you lay eyes on them. And, correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe the record of the largest vocabulary held by a bird belongs to a budgie.

Can't. Stand. That. I mean, it's totally awesome that some parrots can talk, but that really shouldn't be the only reason you get one. Even if they don't talk, they can still be very sweet pets who are very much worth all of the money spent on them. And they are still very entertaining. None of our birds talk, and I love all three to death.

Really? Largest vocab is a budgie? That is totally awesome. I believe it, though. When I was a teenager, I had a little budgie who ended up shocking me because of his ability to talk and mimic random things. Budgies are WAY more intelligent than people give them credit for.

So in conclusion, I definitely agree with you on this argument. And i'm very pleased that someone brought it up, because it is really a bigger issue than most of us realize.

That is true. I'm not saying this about people here, but I know that in the past, I've met people here and there who have had parrots, and the conversation goes something like this:

Me: You have a parrot? What kind?
Them: An African Gray.
Me: Oh, cool.
Them: What kind of bird do you have?
Me: Two budgies and a cockatiel.
Them: Oh. Well my bird can talk and sing the national anthem while calculating higher math and dancing to polka music.

And I'm always thinking... well... I love my birds and they're sweet, and I'd really like it if people would stop writing them off because of their species.