Budgie's Cere Is Bleeding... Help! (pics)

[Gooses]

This first started happening last winter. Chili started bleeding in the early evening and there are no 24 hour or emergency avian vets where I live so I had to wait until morning. But by the time I got her to the vet she had splashed in the water dish and the blood was gone. The vet checked her out and said she was fine. He suggested getting a humidifier to help with her cere/beak/feet/etc from getting too dry.

The next time it happened was a holiday weekend and I had to wait three days to get her in to see the vet. This time he said it might simply be trauma from flying into something, but again he couldn't find anything wrong with her.

Last month I noticed her cere looked very dark and there was a dark spot under her beak and a lot of her nails had black spots. The vet was worried it might be a liver problem at first, but after doing tests he thought it was just bruises and again said it was more "crash trama." Eventually the black spot under her beak grew out and disappeared, but her nails still look black.

Tonight she started bleeding again and I don't know what to do for her. The vet gave me QuikStop, but it's not flowing blood and I'm not really sure where it's originating from. I'm also worried that if I start rubbing this powder all over her face she'll just freak out and it'll just raise her blood pressure and make it worse.

Has anyone had a bird go through this? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated because I'm at a total loss and feeling helpless.



Edit: I also want to add that for the last two days her balance seems to be off. She's flying around ok, but when she hops from perch to perch or is even just climbing on the bars, she ... slips. I don't know if she's actually falling or if she's losing her balance or if she's having a hard time gripping. But whatever is going on, it's not normal for her.

[Albe]

Ouch, that looks painful. The only time I have ever had a bleeding cere was when my budgie hit the window and my tiel got scared and hit the bars. Does she lives with your other budgie? Could he be biting her?

[Gooses]

Ouch, that looks painful. The only time I have ever had a bleeding cere was when my budgie hit the window and my tiel got scared and hit the bars. Does she lives with your other budgie? Could he be biting her?

They live in separate cages and although they get out of the cage time together, they never really play with each other. They are both loner birds. And even when they do get close, Chili is always the aggressive one and would never let Nelli bit her.

[sammit]

it looks like she had scratched herself silly. check in the feathers above her cere for small scratches or mites.

[Fruit Basket]

I was thinking that she may have scratched her nose due to itchiness or something, and she scratched so much she made herself bleed. There is blood on her toenails. The poor thing. I hope it is nothing serious.

[Melza]

im worried that the vet dismissed it...

my first thought was she was oversexed, but i havent known that to cause bleeding.

whatever it is its really bugging her.. back to a NEW vet

[gooddkittie]

So has she definitely been treated for mites? They can get fleas, too. Cere and feet is where you'll find those, which is why I suspect bugs. Also, do you think she could be having night frights?

[kab6193]

I agree with Melza. I would get a second opinion from a different vet.

[Courtney]

That does look like it huts. Maybe she scratched it with her claws because they are very sharp. It could have been itchy and she scratched it. Look really good and try to see if there is a claw mark.

If your vet dismisses I would take her to another vet for a second opinion. The sooner you get her in the better.

Any updates?

[moomooprice]

i agree its time to go to another vet also i would look at her nails and see how sharp theyare. becuse she my be doing the dammage with them. i hope you find out whats going on and fast.

[WyleeWhippets]

Lack of balance is what started with Geordi. Get another vet to look at your bird, please.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

A couple things...

1.) Your budgie is obviously a female. Have you noticed if her cere area sort of "cakes up" with the brown tissue and then when this bleeding occurs, does that cere build-up look like it has disappeared? Hard to tell from the pictures, but it appears like the layers of her cere are peeled away.

2.) The spots on the nails are of a concern. It could be trauma to the regions or a symptom of a liver problem or similar. If no trauma has occurred and the bird is easily getting bruised in relatively hardy areas, that is a red flag.


I would seek another opinion from another veterinarian for sure.

[jakeandnikko]

My only advice is to get a second opinion asap.

[M&Ds Budgies]

Very sorry about Chili's bleeding problem and balance problem.

Chili's feathers stained with blood above her cere look exactly like what happened to my boy, Sweetie. Sweetie also had bruising in his beak and claws, and my vet diagnosed Sweetie with liver disease. Bruising in the beak and claws is apparently a hallmark sign of liver disease. In Sweetie's case, he was oozing blood from his nostrils as well, which accounted for the blood-stained feathers above his cere and occasional tiny droplets of blood in the cage. My vet said that the beak has an artery down the middle. When the artery is bleeding/leaking, the blood backs up in the beak tissue into the nostrils causing oozing from the nostrils. Sweetie also swallowed some of the oozed blood, which irritated his stomach causing him to vomit bloody fluid. It is very scary to watch the oozing and vomiting. Sweetie had bruising in his beak and claws for about a year before he began to have occasional oozing. The oozing started despite the fact that he was on a diet to help support his liver and was getting various supplements recommended by my vet. After the oozing start, we added aloe detox to the regimen (contains more ingredients that plain aloe juice), which reduced the frequency of oozing and then finally stopped it.

According to my vet, a major function of the liver in birds and people is to manufacture the clotting factors that help blood to clot normally to stop bleeding when there is a cut or some other injury. When the liver is diseased, it may not be able to make enough clotting factors so you have bruising, oozing and bleeding. The same thing (bruising and easy bleeding) can happen to people with advanced liver disease or with a genetic defect in their clotting factors (the clotting factors don't work properly).

You also mention that Chili is having recent balance/grip problems. Sweetie did not have this problem. I am thinking that Chili has something else going on besides her liver problem.

Bottom line - Chili needs to see another vet for a second opinion about her liver/nose as well as to get to the bottom of her balance/grip problems in my opinion. If Chili has liver disease, my suggestion is to discuss dietary changes to support her liver, milk thistle (nonalcoholic liquid or seeds), supplements with anti-inflammatory activity and extra B-vitamins to support the liver (ground flax seed, Brewer's yeast, Nekton-S), Avix Booster (supports immune system, which my vet said may not be working optimally in liver disease), and aloe detox.

I hope you get to the bottom of Chili's problem(s).

[Gooses]

Thank you all so much for your concern and suggestions. I took Chili to a different vet, but the result was the same. He couldn't find a thing wrong with her and said it's most likely just trama from flying into something. The dark spot under/on her nails is dried blood from when she scratches at her beak when she is bleeding.

I don't know though ...... I feel like something else is wrong. I've blown my emergency fund on two vets and tests, so I'm going to have to wait until next month before I can make another move. (Good thing next month is only two weeks away!)

[Courtney]

Hmm, well usually instincts are right. Even if you got two opinions. Im EXACTLY like you. I freak out if my animals get sick or I think there is something wrong, nothing stops me until I get answers. Do you have a third vet near you? Can you call one of the vets you visited and ask them to run some tests? Blood work. Test for parasites? Those are a couple of options.

I have five chinchillas now, some died. When I got three from a breeder they came down with diarrhea and this usually means a parasite. But the vet I visited insisted they had listeriosis and would not give me parasite medication, only tetracycline which I later found out is toxic to them. I started heavy duty research. Still I went in there for the third time because it was not getting better and he said keep them on the tetracycline when I handed him a book of info saying the meds were toxic and the symptoms of parasites. That *** STILL told me to give them the meds. I shut my book gave him crap, took my babies and left.

I took them to my dog vets, he gave me parasite medication and one week later they were all better. So now my dog vet is my vet for chins. He saved them.

Eventually because of the toxic medication it makes there liver shut down and they died. Not right away but they were really weak chinchillas. They held on for quite some time but they had babies and they all died too. I lost SIX that is right because of this. They were pregnant.

So the point is VETS CAN BE WRONG. Keep at it and don’t give up. Especially if you think something is not right. You are probably right.

[JustBeaky]

This thread is how I found this forum. This was happening to my parakeet Amelia last night so I was in a panic searching on the internet to see what this may be and I found this post. She was bleeding badly all over her face, like the picture above but worse. When I cleaned her up I could not find for the life of me where she was bleeding from. It stopped and I dried her off and everything seemed to be fine. When I got up this morning, more blood. So lucky for me I got her in to see the vet today. He did not want to take blood at this time in fear she is having a clotting problem from liver issues. She also has an overgrown beak which also can indicate liver problems. So he did a gram stain on her, which is swabbing her throat. He found lots of bacteria. So our plan is to have her on Baytril for 2 weeks to see if it will clear up the bacteria and see if her health improves, he said she does sound pretty squeaky which he feels she may have a resp infec. But not counting the liver out, he gave me Dandelion and Milk Thistle to aid in liver health incase this is caused by that. If in this time she does not improve at all we will need to take blood, which is risky if she is indeed having clotting issues. So I am hoping this is all going to work out!!!

[Marrie]

It's best to create a new thread rather than bring up old ones, more people tend to see it that way.

I hope the Baytril helps your baby - must be so hard to see your fid going through that! Let us know how it goes, I know there are a couple of members here who have some experience in liver conditions and may be able to offer some tips. Healing vibes to Amelia!

[JustBeaky]

Marie,
Hello Thanks for the response. I will def create a new thread. I would welcome any suggestions. Since I have another bird with liver problems!!
Jaime