What is wrong with his beak??

[Misslisg]

My budgie Charlie started developing these weird discolorations in his beak that keep changing almost everyday. They show up along the middle of his beak and kind of slowly move their way down from the top of his beak as it grows. This has been pretty continous for at least a month (maybe longer, honestly don't remember when it started) Lately I've noticed hes been sleeping a lot... which I know is the classic sign for sickness in birds... but when he doesn't sleep he eats like normal and plays with his cage buddy Kiwi and chirps, flys between their playgyms, gets into mischief, and acts completly normal... My mom claims that hes just bored and is sleeping a lot. but i'm pretty sure that there must be something else goin on... like a vitamin deficiency perhaps?? but he has a varied diet. normal seed, egg powder. these oats and groats type things. nutriberries. lettuce. broccoli, and cantalope. and his buddy Kiwi is acting fine. so I just don't know. I would like anybody's opinion on what it may be. besides a vet visit. Which I understand may be neccessary. I would like to in order to know what going on but my mom kind of wants to play the 'wait and see' game unfortunatly *sigh*

here are some pictures taken yesterday. I didn't resize them so that its easier to see his beak. if the images are too large just let me know and I'll resize them. thanks in advance for your input

[Lovebirdfan]

The "wait and see' idea is not one to use with birds. They are very good at disguising their illness as any display of weakness would mean they are easy prey. Don't wait for exaggerated signs as it may lead to a bad outcome.
The discoloration could be many things, including bruising, liver or kidney disease, improper nutrition-- and it would be very smart to get Charlie cared for at the vet. Best of luck to you and Charlie.

[sammit]

thats a bleed. birds beaks are layered like our fingernails and if an injury occurs sometimes they can bleed between the layers, almost like a bruise on our nail beds and just like that they also grown out and down. bleeding like this means he has had some sort of injury, illness or impact and yes a vet would be good. i have seen this before in a bird who had a wooden cage door slam down onto their beak.

but dont take my word for it but it looks INCREDIBLY similar to that other bird.

[ownedbytequila]

I would also be taking your bird for a trip to the vets. Always better to be safe than sorry.

[Skip]

I would also take the budgie to the vet. My little Jilly has the same blood streak on her beak and has been diagnosed with liver problems.
Jilly has been on milk thistle seeds for the problem and so far she is doing really well.
I don't mean to frighten you, but please get it checked.

[Misslisg]

I was able to convince my mom to make a vet appointment. He went in yesterday to see the avian vet and he was very confident that Charlie has liver disease. based off the fact that he not only has bruising on his beak but also his nails (I hadn't even noticed...) we don't entirely know for certain because we opted to not get the bloodwork tests done to put him through even more stress. The vet also said hes got about a year left in him

he also may have a tumor growth, yesterday he started putting up his right foot every chance he got and stumbling around. poor lil guy... but despite this he still tries to fly around (back and forth about 1ft in between their play gyms) and play with his buddy Kiwi like normal.

Now that we know whats going on and theres not anything we can do to make it entirely go away, I'm going to put a lot of research into what we can do to slow it down as much as possible... Has anybody had any experience with liver disease in budgies?

and milk thistle seeds... what are their uses exactly?

thanks guys for your input!

[Marrie]

Debby is dealing with it in a budgie at the moment, i'm sure she can give you some info.

Milk thistle enhances liver function - it can even repair some damage to the liver. If your little budgie has liver disease, adding milk thistle to the diet may help.

Did your vet not discuss any treatment options?

[Misslisg]

Well he basically told us that once it starts it's irreversible. but there are ways to slow down the disease by encouraging exercise and offering more veggies and a lower fat diet that isn't seed based

At the moment Charlie and his buddy Kiwi get fed seeds, nutriberries, oats & Groats, egg powder supplement, broccoli, lettuce, cantalope, and they haev two play gyms, one on top of their cage, and another on a tray which they fly back and forth to frequently throughout the day

They've been on this same diet for at least a year, possibly more. So clearly if we want to see any kind of an improvement in Charlies health something needs to be changed diet wise...

[Marrie]

Hrm. sorry to hear that, hopefully he proves the vet wrong!

Hopefully Debby or someone more experience in liver disease stops by to give you some tips. But, have you tried them on pellets? It is less fatty than seeds, might help some...

Also theres an herb mix called herb salad that I know some people use, it is supposed to be really good for birds.

Other than that - what I do is make up a salad for my tiel. I try to give him some of it everyday. I vary what goes into it - today he got broccoli, green/red peppers, sweet potato and corn with a little cinnamon sprinkled over the top. Other days i'll give him lettuce (romaine or other deep green lettuces only), spinach (in moderation, as it is high in oxadate), etc.

I also pick the sunflower seeds out of his treat seed mix, as they are extremely high in fat (especially the little black ones without the stripe). I'll give him one or two occasionally as a treat.

[Skip]

Hi Mellisa,
As I stated before, my little Jilly has the same markings on her beak.
My vet diagnosed her with liver problems and told me to give milk thistle seeds. He did not state that it would cure her, but he said that it would help.
Jilly has been reasonably ill because of her diagnosis, she would wobble on her perch as if she was going to fall off. Someetimes when she flew around she would hit doors, windows and the floor.
She has been on milk thistle for about 5 weeks and I have seen a great improvment in her. She is happier, she sings a lot more and the marking on her beak is beginning to disperse.

I found all the help that I needed on the following site...
www.avianweb.com/herbsalad.html.

On the bottom of the home page is a list of different herbs and their uses.
All of my birds have these herbs for different ailments that they have. I actually rescue poorly treated birds or birds with an illness. I love to give them the love and attention that they have been deprived of.
The lady who runs the herb salad site is most helpful, you can contact her and she will always give information to help you and the bird.
Please take time to look through her site..
Good luck and I hope your little bird gets well soon

[pixibubbles]

high protein is actually bad for liver problems- so maybe cut out the egg supplements. Also trying to get over to pellets rather than seed may help as it will lower the fat in the diet, also the nutriberries- high fat and sugar.

Other things that can help are Arjwan seed, lavender and chickweed. All are good for detoxing- and my bird loves them all. Though he will do almost anything for his milkthistle. My lovie gets about 5 seeds every couple of days- but it's preventative as he gets PUPD (drinks and lot and pees and lot- yes i said pee lol)

I bet Debby knows exactly how much a bug needs

[Birdmad Girl]

Hi Melissa.

How old is Charlie?

Also I am surprised that your vet said that he had about a year to live without any sort of testing to confirm the diagnosis! Liver disease can have many causes, from obesity, psittacosis and various viruses to bacteria, so to say that there is nothing they can do without testing sounds strange.

The good thing about the liver is that it can regenerate itself really well, so depending on what is causing the liver problems in the first place, there could be an opportunity for treatment. It also depends on how much damage has already been done as to how well the liver responds to treatment and supportive care.

If you could get a blood sample, you should hopefully get a more accurate diagnosis, and if they can diagnose the cause of the liver disease, they should be able to advise you on the best treatment.

HERE is an article that has some good advice for supporting liver disease. Hope it helps.