EMERGENCY SOLVED -- It was cloacal prolapse.

[Vickaronomie]

UPDATE: Took her to the vet, a NEW vet we hadn't met before (due to location and time constraint we had to go to the one closer to our college, and re-register her there...) He was really nice and gentle to Nan, and she was calm and sweet as always. She didn't like being held upside down as usual, and fussed a little. As soon as he saw her bum he knew it was a total prolapse and pushed it right back in. Her cloaca is in place and swollen but she's preened and stopped fluffing/breathing abnormally. She's napping off the stress as I type, but has both feet planted firmly on her perch... I guess it still hurts...

Thanks for all the support and information!!!

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Nan's rear-area was absolutely normal, yesterday. I know because I remember checking to see if she were going to have eggs soon; she's been very horny lately. Today, I got her out and she was immediately acting strange, flying away from me and just seeming off. I didn't notice it at first because I was busy cleaning the bottom tray, which was otherwise clean but the front edge was covered in a thin layer of feces, and her feet were covered in it as well. She will often pace the cage if she's ancy but this has never happened before. When I went to go give her a bath, to wash her feet and hope she wouldn't get a bacteria infection, I was spraying mostly her belly, tail feathers, feet and butt.

It was a little after that when I noticed something red.



We will be taking her to the vet as soon as Andy gets back from class, as I cannot drive. I just wanted some input because I'm a little panicky right now...

I'm actually thinking it's the cloaca, now.

[Marrie]

I have no idea what that is, but I hope she'll be OK and the vet can fix her up for you. Let us know what the vet says.

[Pipers Mom]

Vicky, I have actually seen someone bring their African Gray to my avian vet with the same condition. From what I have read in my bird magazines, Cloacal prolapse is also contributed to by uterine or cloacal infection.

Is your Nan on a seed diet? The reason I ask is that a seed diet that is very low in calcium could cause this problem, especially when they are in the nesting mode.

I suggest you get your baby to an avian vet right away. My gut feeling is that the vet may have to do a surgery to push the Cloaca back in place, which will more than likely result in stitches and perhaps an overnight stay at the vets so they can monitor

Please keep us posted to what the vet says..

[Vickaronomie]

Pipers Mom Thank you for the info.!! Andy thought it might have been egg binding and he's very scared she will die. The earliest appt I could manage was 2:30pm and that was after calling her usual vet, who apparently was in surgery at the time. I will tell Andy what you think it is. We are fully prepared for a surgery, we will get the money somehow.

She is on a seed/pellet diet however (and I've been saying this for months) we need to get her off of the seeds because she will pick through the pellets and only eat the seeds. She fills her crop very fast and it just doesn't seem healthy. She is obsessed with millet. I will be looking for pellet mixes this weekend.

She is also becoming fond of bananas, strawberries, peaches, orange, and she also likes kale, carrot, cooked peppers, rice, noodles chamomile tea (cooled) and soy milk. I've been thinking of making her daily meals with those things instead. I need to get her to like egg...
Maybe I should feed her soy milk more often, too. It's much more enriched with calcium then milk and it's a soy product, so it won't affect her like dairy would. In any case, there will definitely be diet changes after this all blows over. :/

[Vickaronomie]

Thanks, Marrie I will.

[Pipers Mom]

Andy is definitely right.. The cloaca could be a result of egg binding too. Glad that you are on the right track to changing her diet. I would also consult with your vet on her diet as well. Please keep us posted to what your vet says.. My thoughts and prayers are with Nan, Andy and you..

[boomer girl]

I am sorry and I do hope your Nan will be OK. I am happy you taking her right in and willing to do what you have to do to keep her healthy and with you, not all people are willing to take that extra step. I will be sending Nan many get well thoughts her way and do please let us know how she is when you get home.

I personally dont think letting birds have seeds is such a bad thing as long as they also get other good foods too. I stuck to a 40% seed, 30% pellets and 30% good people food because that is what my avian vet recommended. I think too much pellets is bad for some, little budgies and tiels seem to have bodies that seem to not tolerate a pellet diet. Hopefully you can talk to you vet to see what they recommend because all of them seem to be so different.

[Vickaronomie]

It was a cloacal prolapse and he fixed it by pushing it in. He said if it happened again that we'd be able to come in for a stitch and wouldn't be charged for the visit, just the procedure. She has problems passing feces a LOT so I'm not surprised. She's kind of tired but she's not fluffy or breathing abnormally anymore. Yay!

He took an unnecessary xray though. Andy was positive she didn't have eggs because she was eating and pooping regularly, but we let him take it anyway. And the result was no eggs. So. $50 extra down the hole. xD Oops.

Thanks guys!! I'm so relieved...

[Marrie]

Glad he was able to fix her up! At least you know there are no eggs in there.

Seeds are fine for her to have, but if she picks through and JUST eats the seeds, you can do what I do (mine does the same thing) - feed pellets and seeds separate. Seeds are controlled and I only give a little bit every day, pellets are what I leave free in his bowl. A lot of tiels would rather eat the seeds than the pellets if they have the option and a lot are millet obsessed. It's great she eats so many fresh foods too.

Kale has a lot of calcium and it is the most easily absorbed. If she won't eat egg you could try putting some crushed egg shell into bird bread or something she likes. Be sure she gets UV exposure though, as they need it to absorb calcium - filtered through a window isn't enough, she needs an open window or a UV light.

[Vickaronomie]

Marrie Thanks!! We will be taking her out side with her harness as often as we can. The air is pretty clean out here but this summer, after the semester ends, I will be taking her home to live with me, so she'll either get light from a screened window or, on good days (no chemicals/fires around, etc) I will be taking her into my back yard.

We also have cuttlebone easily accessible from her cage as well as from her "happy perch" jungle gym out in the living room. There are two huge pieces wedged between the rungs of a ladder and her food bowl. The vet said calcium may not have been the issue, because she's always eating from the bones...

She has had times where her vent was blocked with feces, or that she hadn't pooped in a long time therefore it was huge and hard to pass, so naturally it just came to this. She was trying way too hard to poop, today. Unfortunately, this means we have to watch out for this every day, now. The vet said we can also pop it back in ourselves if it happens, so we're prepared for that, too. I'm just glad it didn't need surgery.

He said Cockatoos are the most notorious for that condition, pushing it out several inches, and often needs surgery wherein the vet ties the cloaca to a rib so that it cannot be expelled. What a nightmare... D:

[Marrie]

Cuttlebones are supplement calcium, so not absorbed as well as fresh foods. Because of that, it isn't enough if they are trying to develop eggs, to replace the calcium they use. Breeders are always cautioning beginners because they put in cuttlebone and ignore the fresh foods, thinking that it supplies enough calcium. However, since she is eating fresh as well and several of the things she likes are high in calcium and she isn't actually breeding... I wouldn't think calcium would be low either.

Did the vet mention anything that might help her with passing her waste easier? Poor girl having to strain so hard to poop.

[Pipers Mom]

Vicky.. So happy to read the good news Glad that everything went well for you.

[boomer girl]

I am happy she is going to be OK too and didnt need any kind of surgery to get it to stay where it belongs. I bet you and Andy are thrilled she is at home preening herself right now with you... what a great ending to a stressful day for all of you.

[Ash27]

How old was your tiel when she had the surgery?