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[Samantha Marie]

I have a two female handreared cockatiels. My 12 year old is named Bertie and my 10 year old is named Billie. They both live in the same cage. Bertie the eldest, is the more dominant and since reaching adult maturity has laid eggs for a couple of weeks every year around January time. Billie has never laid. This year however Bertie did not and I just thought that she had finished her reproductive cycle I.e bird menopause. But in this last week she has been displaying nesting behaviour again, sitting at the bottom of the cage and she has laid what can only be described as two grey bricks, that are rough to the touch and have got curly appendages, when you break them they contain the yolk and white of a normal egg. I am concerned obviously for the health of Bertie and fear that these misshaped eggs will get stuck, although there is no signs of this at the moment. There is always a good supply of calcium in the cage, I have a calcium block, cuttlefish and oyster shell and grit. Bertie will destroy a cuttlefish in a matter of weeks, so I don't think she is calcium deficient. There diet consists of an expensive cockatiel mix and is supplemented with greens and occasional fruits. What I really need is some advice, rather than a vet who will probably frighten her to death! I think if she is nearing the end of her life, I would prefer her to go as nature intended, rather than stressed at a vets
Regards
Sam

[Pipers Mom]

Seems like your not to keen on having a vet take a look at Bertie. Personally, I would have an avian vet examine her. I recommend having an avian exam conducted at least once a year.

[Samantha Marie]

Thank you for your reply

Fortunately neither of my two cockatiels have needed to see a vet in all the years I have been keeping them. Despite her problem, Bertie is in incredibly good health,
her eyes are bright and her demenour hasn't changed, she still seems happy, eating fine and her weight is stable (Im a senior nurse at a local hospital LOL) The only
thing I have noticed over the past few years, is that she is not so keen on having a good fly around and tends to get a little 'out of puff', preferring to sit still. This
I have put down to age. I am concerned about taking her to a vet, the car journey and the fact she really doesnt like strangers. It upsets her and she gets out of
breath, if I physically grab hold of her and she has known me for twelve years! yet she will sit happily on my knee for hours and have lots of kisses. I fear that the
stress of a visit to the vet may be too much for her, and what I really want to know is whether anyone has come across this condition before and whether it may be
something that is easily remedied if I take her to a vet. What I really dont want for her is the vet trialling one treatment or another, but the outcome being the same.

Again

Thank you

Sam

[Marrie]

She is not really that old, we have a tiel on here that is over 30. Their average life span is 12-15 years, but it isn't uncommon for tiels with proper care to live over 20. The egg thing probably has to do with a lack of nutrient more than age. Or possibly an illness. As for calcium, cuttlebone and calcium blocks (both supplements, not asborbed as well as veggies) are not proper calcium for egg laying females. They need to get their calcium from a natural source. You say she eats greens, which ones? Does she eat kale, broccoli and other calcium rich greens? The fact she is eating a cuttlebone that fast leads me to believe she's not absorbing enough calcium into her diet. How much natural sunlight (unfiltered by window glass) does she get?

Egg issues and malformed eggs are common enough. Females even sometimes lay eggs with no shells. But when you see this, a vet is recommended. Egg complications usually means something is wrong in their little bodies and it can lead to egg binding and other fatal complications.

As for regular vet visits, those are recommended for healthy birds as well. It not only gives your vet a base line to know better when your tiel is sick, but it gets your tiel used to being handled by the vet so an emergency won't stress them out too much. Plus, many illnesses in birds they hide VERY well and it can show up only on a fecal etc. If you are worried the trip to see the vet may upset her now too much, you can call the vet and discuss it with them. With her laying weirdly formed eggs, other complications are likely. Combine that with her becoming tired more often/easier and I wonder if maybe there isn't an underlying infection or something causing her body to be out of sync. If it is just lack of calcium, they will give her oral liquid calcium for you to give for a bit. If it is an infection (certain infections can cause eggs to be malformed) they will give her antibiotics for you to give at home.

Also, tiels do not need grit - grit is for birds who do not hull their seeds, it helps them digest the seed hulls. Hook bills hull their seeds, so grit doesn't help them and it can cause other issues (crop impactions, bad digestion, etc).

[Samantha Marie]

Hi Marrie
Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying with regards to getting the tiels used to going to the vet. I'm not sure where you are, but where I live there are no vets that specifically deal with birds. We have small animal vets that will see dogs, cats, hamster, birds, rabbits etc but they do not specialise in any one particular animal. Yes I could probably go and get antibiotics and calcium for the tiels, but they would probably not be able to offer much more than that. My gut feeling is telling mYe that Bertie's problem is not one of nutrition or calcium deficiency or infection, I believe that it is more likely to be that of a malignant nature.
You ask what greens I feed them, I also have 2 tortoises Sthat are fed on a weed only diet such as dandelion, plantain, chicory, endive etc, So I give the tiels this also. I have never given the tiels spinach as this has oxalic acid and blocks calcium absorption , as it does in tortoises, nor have I ever given them broccoli as this contains phytate and it is my understanding that this too works to block calcium absorption. The tiels do go outside (in their cage) during the summer months, and I provide half the cage with shade incase they get too hot and as I've already mentioned, their seed diet is an expensive seed/ pellet mix ( living world cockatiel food by a company called Hagan) so I really don't think they are nutritionally deficient. I will watch and wait, tonight Bertie hasn't been down to the bottom of the cage, so I am presuming the egg laying has finished for now, I will keep my eye on her and if this happens again I will take her to the vet. Many thanks

Sam

[Pipers Mom]

After I seen your reply to Marie, I happened to notice that you keep your tiel near tortoises. I provided a forum link in regards to reptiles and birds... Hope this helps you out..

http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/c...birds+reptiles

[Marrie]

Oxalic acid rich foods (such as spinach and parsley) are only bad if fed often, a little bit is fine (once a week or every other week). It only becomes an issue when too much builds up in their system, just like in humans, it will cause kidney stones in us when we over indulge. Broccoli is the same, only a problem if fed too often. Dandelion and endive have calcium in them, as well as high vitamin A though (calcium and vitamin A being key to our fids).

One thing that is good for birds for kind of an herbal remedy is something called "herb salad" - it has a mixture of herbs that are known to combat a lot of health issues. It can help liver issues and other problems in avians. You can also feed the raw herbs instead.

I don't have an avian specialist near me either - there is one in the entire state where I live, over 3 hours away. But, I called up all the vets in town and grilled them on bird and rabbit care to find good vets for my pets. To find a good one, you just have to look up some of the things a vet should know. What antibiotics are toxic? What is the most common given? How many birds do you see on a yearly basis? What is the treatment for (pick a common ailment)? A good vet will happily answer your questions and answer them correctly. I asked my vet so many questions he now just explains to me everything he is doing, what the medicine he is giving is called, what other options there are for whatever I take them in for (even ones he won't do due to health risks he feels are too great, but other vets would) etc without being asked.

You can also help discourage her from laying by increasing her night time hours when you notice her acting "nesty" - instead of the normal recommended 12 hours, up it to 14 or 15 hours of sleep in a covered cage. That will simulate winter for her and for some hens will knock them out of their egg laying interest. mask is a member here who breeds lovebirds and has given a lot of advice on how to prevent laying / mating in pairs, if you browse their posts what works for lovies also works for tiels in that. If she doesn't try to lay, no risk of egg laying complications.

[Hayley24]

Dear Samantha

If you are concerned about taking Bertie to a vets, why not call your local vets and ask if you can speak with one of the vets or practice nurses for some advice. If you explain that your bird is a little older now and becomes very stressed and agitated when travelling in a car and being seen or handled by new people, they may be very understanding. If there is no one at the surgery who specialises in birds, they should be able to give you some numbers for specialists that you can call for advice. I hope this helps and I hope that Bertie is ok