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Thread: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

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    Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    Hello. My beloved budgie and my biggest love - female Blue ( one of my budgies ) died soon on Wednesday, probably on liver failure. She was probably the semi - exhibition budgie. I bought her on February 10, 2013 from the store together with another female with whom they were friends, also laying the eggs in one bird box. I increased the amount of my budgies by buying them.
    In that time I noticed that she is suffering some problems. I could hear her breathing sometimes. I could not solve it in that time. My vet.doctor though it was some cardiovascular problem.
    Since ( maybe ) the last November her problems becase more visible. She was always a little passive budgie. She started to loose weight, those sounds like squeezing or almost crying could be heard mainly in the night. Her belly was more enlarged. One of her feet was a little lameness, she had a problem to turn on the foot around the perch. She was bitting the foot nervously sometimes. Also became more apathetic. She was regruiting the food sometimes and eating it back. MAybe she had an air in the crop. It came to my mind that she was suffering the fatty liver problem.
    Also she was suffering polyuria for many months. My previous 13 years old male also had the polyuria, but he died due to chronic interstitinal nephritis.
    I am from Slovakia and my vet. doctor is in Czech.
    She recommended me to go to Vienna for some ultrasound check. I went there. The first visit in Vienna showed : hormonal problems - thyroid , possible ovarian tumor and fatty liver. I had to add the iodine into the water to my budgie. I was adding it for a month. I do not remmeber whether it helped or not.... I made a fault that I stopped with that. She used to make those sounds again -sometimes. My vet.doctor told me that those shapes on the ovaries could be folicules, it need not be a tumor.
    I went for the second check to Vienna. I was not told nothing about thyroid problems or fatty liver. When I mentioned the doctor that my budgie has one leg a little lameness, she wrote into the paper : kidney tumor suspicion.
    But this was a little strange for me.... Is it possible to suffer the main problem called a kidney tumor for such a long time, or did it grow like some secondary problem? But the foot of my budgies did not become more lameness or paralyzed. THanks to God. I had really doubts about the kidney tumor. I could not see the belly enlarging quickly. MY love died soon on wednesday 16. 5. 2018. She could stand in the perch finally.... and died some time after that.
    On that day I went with my beloved budgie to autopsy and a histology examination. Despite I would prefer burrying my budgie in the original form, I had to know what was going on. My vet.doctor did the autopsy. The histological results are not available yet.
    P:S: The beak of my budgie was also visibly changed, the shape, like in the liver problems.
    I regret that I did not let the thyroid gland checked... I am sure it was enlarged.
    The autopsy showed not tumor on the kidneys which would be visible. It showed a chronic problem on the liver. Something like cirrhosis. MY budgie died probably due to liver encefalopathy. It caused the lameness foot and compressed nerves.
    I am sad, because : my vet. avian doctor did not tell me nothing about iodine and thyroid during all that time and hearing those sounds....
    I knew my budgie was suffering low white blood cells, but could not solve that.
    I was recommended no treatment of the liver.
    My question to you, people : I was giving my budgies millet sprays, classic seeds ( since january I have been ordering them from the Germany, before that mostly versele laga ). I was feeding sweet potatoes, often organic carrots, egg mixture ( eggs + carrots + apples ), some greens when available, and also during the last year sprouted seeds ).
    My question is : is it fact that these budgies who are probably overbreeded and are more passive...should not eat millets and should be forced to eat veggies, despite they are not natural for them in the wild? Could I influence this problems, or is it mostly connected with the breeding problem? Thank you.

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    MY beloved budgie Blue was diagnosed from the histology with the Cholangiocarcinoma of the liver. MY vet. say there were not found any arteriosklerotic changes which would be connected with the nutrition of my budgie. The problem can not be connected to the diet.
    I am sad from this diagnosis and I am pleasing the God to send the cancer to MY liver.
    THank you.

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    I just reread several articles I saved in my files about liver cancer in budgies, three of which specifically deal with cholangiocarcinoma. The most common cause cited is mold, specifically a cancer-causing toxin in some mold called aflatoxin. This is commonly found in millet seed that has gone bad.

    Not all birds exposed to the same toxin will have the same problems, much like humans.
    Last edited by gimaal; 05-25-2018 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    I was reading about aflatoxins in this connection.... also my budgies probably suffered the thyroid problem, but 2 vets whom I asked... declined this possibility....
    IF some budgies get tumors and some do not get tumors after eating spoilt millet...you can not be sure that those who got it... gained it from the mold... it is just a quess...and I am trying to give them normal looking millets

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    So, it looks like a genetic problem, it is the most probable. Like I was said, the aflatoxins theory is just a theory.... Despite that I am angry on myself I did not try to do something at least with the potential thyroid problem of my beloved budgie.

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan.vanca View Post
    So, it looks like a genetic problem, it is the most probable. Like I was said, the aflatoxins theory is just a theory.... Despite that I am angry on myself I did not try to do something at least with the potential thyroid problem of my beloved budgie.
    Hardly 'just' a theory. The evidence of aflatoixin poisoning of pets, and budgies specifically, is well documented.

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    Re: Budgie chronic liver problem - diet or overbreeding problem?

    No, it is not... there is no any evidence that my budgie could die to that.... There is no evidence that in the millets or seeds it could occure due to be wetty. It is nonsence. But the overbreeding health problem is really documented, so I agree with this point- problematic overbreeding

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