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Thread: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

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    Hatching marroqui's Avatar
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    signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Hi all,

    As you might know, I've been waiting for my lovebird Ashu to abandon the infertile eggs she laid previously. They are infertile because her bonded friend is DNA'd a girl. The first time I saw an egg was on the 3rd of July which is about 28 days ago now. I think that was the first egg and I do think it was laid on the 3rd because the day before I never saw any egg anywhere. I mentioned to my partner about transferring the eggs onto a paper towel onto the floor but he wasn't comfortable doing that so we let her be in her hammock, to let her do her sitting and wait for her to abandon the eggs. I knew she would probably lay more. At the moment its hard to tell how many their are because she has filled the front with millets (her nesting material) but she can still get out and eat whenever she likes, so it doesnt completely block her way out.

    I am wondering, what are the signs to look out for that will tell us, she has abandoned the eggs? I want to remove them and the hammock at the right time so that she doesnt try to replace them. This happened with my other lovebird Kovu, and the signs she gave was: she was staying outside of the nestbox more than inside, she would bathe herself (she wouldn't bathe herself when she was "sitting"), and she was trying to get her bonded friend to mate with her again, which for me meant she had abandoned the eggs and wanted try again, and as you know, I did remove the box and rearranged the cage, and since then, she has been doing well and doesnt seem interested at all in any kind of egg laying behaviour and does her nap time singing with the others during the day. sometimes a few days before the day she was planning to abandon the eggs, she would allow Kiara to sleep inside the box with her, and before that she didn't allow it.

    With Ashu, I don't have signs yet. She had a bath two days ago but then just went back inside her hammock while wet, kovu wouldn't go back inside when she had a bath which indicated she was done with the eggs. Yesterday she allowed Asha to sleep inside the hammock with her, but the past two weeks or so Asha wasn't allowed and was sleeping on top of the hammock and was spending most of her time outside eating and talking with the others. Ashu does sing and talk to the others from inside her hammock but just comes out to eat and poop. Are there any other signs I can watch out for? Is there a maximum amount of days/weeks in which I should allow her to sit until I just take the eggs and hammock away myself without the possibility of her replacing them?

    She's a really strong girl, probably the strongest and most energetic out of all of them, so I feel inside she is and will be ok, but I am just really eager to be done with this egg business and rearrange her cage like we did with Kovu, and have her outside playing and eating and singing like she used to with the others.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Huts...equal....hormones and egg laying. If you continue to use them, your hens will become chronic egg layers. Since you do not know how many eggs are in the hut, and there have been more eggs laid since the first clutch that she laid in the 28 day time period, if you do not remove the hut, she will never stop laying eggs, and you will have a chronic egg layer. I know it seems cruel to put the eggs in a corner of the cage, but you have no other choice to try to decrease the egg laying. It is going to deplete the calcium in her body, and then she will have medical issues.

    So if it were me, I would take all the huts away from the cages, remove ALL of the eggs, from all hens that are laying eggs now, and begin again. Increase fresh veggies and cuttlebone for the hens, and be prepared to place the eggs on paper towel, in a corner of the cage . This egg laying is not going to stop completely, but if you can get it reduced to only a couple of times a year, that will save the health of your hens. Taking the huts away will help ALOT, but do not expect for them to completely stop right now. It will take some time, before they are content to be like your Kovu. Also, do not allow baths daily. The water also encourages nesting, because it is in a bowl like a nest. Consider spritzing them every few days with warm water, instead.

    You see, they are loving their home, and environment, and you. And you are providing them a nesting place. The reality is that all birds were created by God and nature to procreate. And they always have nesting and mating, and eggs on their mind.

    If you decide to take this approach, each cage that had the eggs and hut, needs to be rearranged so that it is not such a comfort to them. Also, no soft foods for hens. Not a large amount of foods and seeds, and about 10 hours sleep at night.

    I write this info in respect of you, not as chastising you. I know so well the feelings of love for our babies, but saving their health is a necessity when we can do so at every turn. I have your best interests at heart, for you AND your flock.
    Last edited by maxollie; 07-30-2017 at 08:40 AM.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    You will know when the eggs will be cold.

    I'm not too fond of "huts" it's always the same story, females always saw that as nest, which is normal if you think a little think about it.
    You can try something else like building a shelter with perch but without a bottom.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Signs would be cold eggs. And as you've mentioned you know when she left her eggs when she starts bathing again.

    If you really want to stop your birds to lay eggs, simple remove the nestbox or anything that resembles it. Simple removing the eggs (even if they have abandoned it_ won't stop them from breeding/laying eggs. Don't give them a box and they won't lay eggs.

    I breed different lovebird mutations for about a year now.

    Best,
    Agapornis

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Hi everyone thank you so much for the responses.

    Ellen I do appreciate your wisdom on this issue as I know you dealt with a chronic egg layer yourself. I was able to see how many eggs Ashu laid, she was eating millet in front of her hammock so I was able to peek a little and there is definitely either 5 or 6 eggs. So it depends on when she laid the last egg, and if she is anything like kovu she should abandon them this week rather than my calculated date of last week. My partner wants to give her until end of this week before making changes so we will give until the end of this week and if she doesn't abandon them we will intervene and do as you mentioned putting the eggs at the bottom (they have a smaller cage anyway so it will only be a few centimetres under where they are now). I definitely know you have our best interests at heart, and always appreciate your thoughtful and knowledgable responses on here.

    No one else has hammocks, we removed them immediately when we saw it was making them want to mate all of a sudden, and they stopped trying to mate after removing them. However two of my other lovebirds Ashi and Koko, have all a sudden been trying to mate from time to time as well, almost maybe every 2nd or 3rd day I've had to go and interrupt them. I'm not sure whats causing them to be like that though. Do birds mate solely to lay eggs? Or are they like humans and just sometimes feel "randy" I suppose I could say and want to mate without thinking about laying eggs? They don't have anything that I know of that could be causing them to think of egg laying, just their regular food and water holders that they have all always had, a coconut toy (similar to a swing so it just hangs in the middle), they have a cement swing, and then just mostly different kinds of perches around to hop around from one stop to another and / or perch. They also have something called a bird seat. I have been thinking that has turned on the hormones, but kovu and Kiara have two of them and don't bother with trying to mate anymore, Kiara sometimes spreads her wings and then kovu goes to her but then they argue soon after and nothing happens lol and I think when Kiara does spread her wings she's doing it for Koko in the next cage. I am starting to think Koko is the only boy in our flock now. We sometimes sprinkle seeds on the seat and put the vegetables there too as thats where Ashi likes to go and forage. This is the seat toy:

    http://www.avione.com.au/2015-04-16-...bl/210-22510bl

    I never saw Ashi and Koko try to mate ever, until they had a hammock, which I immediately removed, after that I didn't see them try until recently. My partner thinks its their ages.

    Thanks Stephane and Romar as well, and welcome to the community too. I am no longer a fan of those hammocks anymore, I've seen advertised online the same hammocks but with a perch inside and no bottom too, and ages ago thought about getting them but didn't like how the perches looked, but now I think they will be warm enough with just their blankets over the cages. I am quite cautious of many toys now, I know that egg laying and mating always seems to be on their minds once they reach a certain age but I wonder if numerous toys are provoking that behaviour more.

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    Tailfeather
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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Seems like I am always the bearer of bad news! Now if that birdy seat did not have the soft fleece covering, it would not be a problem. But that soft seat equals.........EGGS!!!!! Ugh And the hammocks have to go!

    All parrots, no matter the species have the natural instinct to mate and lay eggs. For your females, I think it is a combination of several things. . As I have shared, it is still winter there, but Spring is not far off. Spring for parrots is the breeding season. The humidity in the home must be exact for the hen to lay. The diet must be a good one. Anything like the hut or birdy seat, that is soft material (the tents are about the same material), are going to get the urges to lay started. Some lovies stuff paper in their rumps as a precursor to laying eggs. And most of all, birds sense the level of hormones of each other. And then, Nature takes over. All of your hens are sensing the hormones of each other, both males and females. Even though they may be in different cages.

    If it were me, I would throw out her old eggs pronto, and not place the old eggs on the cage floor. Because that is providing her the same comfort she had in the nest, with her old eggs. The cage has to be changed inside, and the birdy seat, throwed away as well. Then, after doing all the changes I spoke about, we sit back and take a deep breath, and see how long before she lays another egg. And THEN we put the new eggs in the cage corner and count another 21-28 days before throwing them away.

    Each day that goes by without her laying an egg is "progress". And I strongly feel if you do not take her old eggs from her asap, then she will be laying immediately. We truly need to prevent this happening.

    From the files of:As the Life of a Female Bird Turns!!!!!
    Last edited by maxollie; 08-01-2017 at 08:27 PM.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Quote Originally Posted by agapornis View Post
    Signs would be cold eggs. And as you've mentioned you know when she left her eggs when she starts bathing again.

    If you really want to stop your birds to lay eggs, simple remove the nestbox or anything that resembles it. Simple removing the eggs (even if they have abandoned it_ won't stop them from breeding/laying eggs. Don't give them a box and they won't lay eggs.

    I breed different lovebird mutations for about a year now.

    Best,
    Agapornis
    If the hen is bathing while on eggs it's to regulate humidity, not a sign of abandoning the eggs.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Thanks Tim, that is valuable information! It's winter here and its been more colder the last few weeks so perhaps thats why, and when Kovu was laying eggs if I remember correctly it was cold but not this cold so maybe she didn't have to, and she had a box not a hammock to regulate the temperature.

    Ellen, it sounds like you are right. I did start suspecting that those seats were encouraging them even more. It's funny as its freezing cold now down here, but perhaps they sense spring is not too far away (next month) although most years here it doesn't feel like spring when its spring as its usually still really cold. We will be taking action shortly with Ashu and Asha. They don't have the bird seat anymore we took that out from them ages ago as they were chewing the material off of it. I think from now on for everybody we'll just be sticking to hanging toys or them to climb and play on and chew and just their food and water containers. Some of them sleep in the containers or next to them on a nearby perch and some I think are happy perching. I think they do sense each others hormones in the room too. They all have good diets, they eat their seeds and their vegetables too, the untamed ones are always eager for me to move my hand away from their cages so they can go get the vegetables, but I've also been putting a little less seed as well so they don't think there is a never-ending food supply. One step at a time I suppose. I just want them happy and healthy and not laying eggs.
    It appalls me how they have the ability to lay eggs without a male mate! I used to think parrots were smart, but now I'm questioning that, as why would a female think another female can mate with her to make eggs? Not very smart

    I think its the peach faces that stuff the nesting materials in their rumps, the masked and fischers just carry it on their beaks to their nesting site, from what I have observed.

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    Tailfeather
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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Well, for all the years I had budgies, even from the time I had my first one, Mickey, when I was 11 years old, they all were single budgies. Most were males, but I had a friend give me a pair of females one time, and they were very aggresive with each other, so much so, I rehomed them to a lady who had a small aviary with both males and females. I always suspected those two were breeding hens. But in all those years, I do not ever remember any of them, males or females (all were single in a cage alone), ever usng thier toys or perches for "mating" behavior. And never did the hens lay eggs.

    It was not until 2003, when I had four budgie males, and that spring getting a fifth what I thought at the time was a male, did I get an education on the hormonal urges of birds. Like you, I only thought of breeding and mating birds outside in the trees or in aviaries. Then, that Christmas was the time that my four males got into a fight wth each other while I was not home one afternoon. I found feathers everywhere in their cage, and Pete, had a sprained or broken toe. At the time, the #5 budgie, Buttercup, I thought was a boy, was in the cage with the other four. I had no idea why they all got into a fight. I had never had that problem, ever. And then in a couple of days, I found Buttercup and Nikki, one of the males, on a perch mating. Then I knew the males wre fightng over her, and Nikki won the fight and became a dad to four babies.

    It was three years later in the summer, when I got Ollie, who, I thought was a baby, and three months later, she laid her first egg, and became a chronic egg layer very fast. She was a single hen in her own cage. I had no other tiels.

    I have come to realize that brds are wired for mating and eggs. God and Nature created thm as such, and I think caged birds are doomed for it. In the wild, parrots do not have this constant hormone frenzy.

    And I have a theory about breeders who feed pellets, or bird owners who feed pellets. Pellets are man made food. Most varieties of pellets have corn and soybeans as ingredients. It s well researched and studied, that human women who are low on estrogen in their body are encouraged to eat soy products like tofu, and soybean oil, to increase the estrogen levels in the body.

    And, my thought is that since pellets were introduced and promoted by vets to be fed to parrots and other birds, breeders using them to feed their breeding pairs, about 15-20 years or so ago, and then the parents of brand new baby birds, eating and regurgitating the pellets to their babies, the estrogen in the soybeans in the pellets is causing the babies to mature very fast and the new hens to lay eggs early on after being hatched. And as a result, we have caged birds being hormonal all of the time, and there no longer is "seasonal" mating and egg laying but it is now year around. And, it seems that males also have more hormone issues than ever before as well.

    "This is some food for thought" for all caregivers to ponder.
    Last edited by maxollie; 08-02-2017 at 06:17 PM.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    That is really interesting information, especially about the pellets! I do not judge anyone feeding pellets, as some might be feeding the pellets and have strong healthy birds living long healthy lives, but I personally choose not to bother trying anymore now that mine eat vegetables alongside their seeds. I don't feel that there is anything wrong with the seeds especially a mixture with variety, they have their vitamins and nutrition in them. I prefer to give them natural foods rather than man made products. But perhaps it is contributing to higher levels of oestrogen and earlier egg laying in females.

    I am amazed at how poor little Ollie became a chronic egg layer quickly. But I wonder do you think she had done that before you got her? Since you mentioned you assumed she was younger than she might have been?

    What happened to the babies of Nikki and Buttercup? Did you rehome them or keep them?

    Do your current two budgies play outside together? Or do they mostly stay inside their cages? How have you prevented them from mating and egg laying (well the female)?

    I think I remember reading somewhere, I can't remember if it was on this forum or just a random article on the internet, but when you mention god created birds to be wired for mating and eggs, I remember reading something, about birds that are vulnerable to predators and how during breeding season in the wild, they have so many eggs and babies, and that the reason for this is to keep the population strong, because so many can be lost soon after from being preyed upon by predators, so to keep the population thriving this is why they have so many babies and why they leave the nest so early and start mating so early as well.

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    Tailfeather
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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Nikki and Buttercup had four beautiful babies. I named them Lemon, Limon, Mango, and Tango. I really never got to know them well, because I had to move to an apartment that did not allow 13 birds, and only one bird. So I had a girlfriend whose two daughter in laws took all of them, one took the tiels, the other took the budgies.

    As to Ollie, I always thought she may have been a breeding hen, and the retail pet store sold her to me as a 12 week old. I wrote about the pellets, and yet I did not feed any to Ollie. But, her breeder very well may have fed pellets to her parents and to her.

    Marlee and Muffin are in separate cages and my lease will not allow them to fly free. I have tried putting them together, but Muffin gets frisky and dominates her, and I do not want matng and eggs anymore. My landlord would probably kick me out if she happned to come here and find babies!

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    That was nice of your girlfriend's daughter in laws to take them in and raise them. It does sound like Ollie was a breeding hen beforehand or at least perhaps already was hormonal. It seems too young to be hormonal at 3-6 months go age, but as you mentioned, maybe she was older than originally thought.

    Thats interesting about Muffin! But when they are in their own cages do they chirp and sing together happily? It's funny how when birds are outside they become naughty bullies or dominant, but inside and seperate from each other its almost as if they are happy chirping and singing to each other like they are best friends. Mine always chirp to each other, and if one is missing, they all start screaming loudly. Sometimes every now and then one or two will be trying to open the cage trying to get to their neighbour in the next cage and I used to think oh how sweet they want to play, but now I think they want to attack them or do something naughty and its not a friendly gesture that I used to think it was.

    I hear everywhere that lovebirds are the most aggressive birds, but I don't think that anymore, I think its all birds. Maybe with lovebirds they have the bad habit of trying to bite each others toes, which possibly other birds don't have that habit, but they are definitely all possessive and territorial from my observances. But I still think they are wonderful beautiful creatures.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Sorry, also forgot to ask, what toys do you put for Muffin and Marlee in their cages? And how many food and water bowls do they get each? How do they keep themselves happy and busy all day? I am thinking about what toys to get for mine in replacement of the bird seats. One avian vet clinic in Australia, based in Queensland, has a website (they are called Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary) and they also have a vet clinic and a seperate website for their vet clinic (Currumbin Vet Services I think) and I was reading many articles yesterday, and read about how some toys they are marketed as safe for birds, are actually not safe. One toy was like a rainbow rope toy, like a rope perch which you can attach from one side of a cage to another, and apparently the fibres of those ropes are dangerous. I used to put those ages ago for some of mine, but took them out, because they pooped all over them, thankfully they never chewed them I checked and they never did, but now I'm just really cautious and nervous about what to buy for them to keep them happy and entertained and preferably not thinking about egg laying and hormones.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Just an update: Today we made the big change, started with Asha and Ashu and got them out of the cage. I monitored them playing while my partner fixed the cage in another room. Took the hut out and the eggs too. Turns out there were 8 eggs. I think all were laid by Ashu, not Asha, which is a small relief for me if its true, as Asha is the one who had the flight feather issues beforehand and she didnt spend that much time in the hammock as Ashu did. So Ashu may have started a new cycle but I'm not sure when. Regardless they are gone and the cage has been rearranged with one or two different toys and their food and water. She doesn't seem to be looking for the eggs, but she has been climbing around upside down on the top of the cage a lot, and she is eating and drinking and so is Asha, who doesn't seem to care that everything is different in the cage. They seem ok most of the time. If anyone is more different it is Ashu, as she used to be so loud and vocal and today she's a bit quieter, Asha is her same usual self as if nothing has happened. I really hope the egg laying ends now but I am also prepared if Ashu does decide to lay again to replace if she needs to, but at the same time there isn't anywhere for her to lay anymore so hopefully it doesn't come to that, but if it does, at least it won't be hidden from view and I can calculate the days properly and remove at the right time, but hopefully now was also the right time in order to stop it like it was for Kovu.

    After that was done, one by one we took the bird seats out as well out of the others cages and now they just have another toy to chew, non hormone provoking just hanging on the cage. I'm still keen to look for different toys though for them to chew. Thinking about checking Amazon for someone that ships to Australia. Locally, its always just the same toys and same brands that I am struggling to trust now. But I want to be cautious and ensure they are safe for them.

    But for now, thats the update on the egg situation, and hopefully everything goes well. I do appreciate all the advice you have all given to me. Especially you, Ellen, thank you so much, I imagine it's hard to remember those times you had with Ollie when advising others who seem to get the same egg laying issues.

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    Re: signs that a lovebird has abandoned their eggs

    Hi, Laila. I am sooo proud of you both for taking this step, and my advice. I know how it feels to have to try to change their behavior, because hens are so wired for nesting, they love it, and really cannot stop it due to natural instincts. But the good news is that it can be tamped down somewhat, and the main goal is to save their lives from calcium loss. I always said I loved to watch my Ollie with her rituals she always had before she laid her usual clutch, how loving she was as a mom, tending to those eggs, tirelessly, and then, since they were not fertile, having to abandon them. She had no other tiel friends. You are fortunate you have all of your lovies to be friends together. I truly hope that this change will help them to abstain from laying eggs, even if only a few weeks or months, so they will have time to replenish their body calcium.

    And you are very welcome. Until I joined the forum, I only had hands on knowlege about bird care. I have learned volumes of knowledge about all parrot species since I became a member here.

    As to Muffin and Marlee, they get along great in their own cages. Both hang out in the top cage corners chattering away. When it is time for bed, they both flock call each other, while waîting for their cage to be taken to the bedroom. When in one cage, Muffin is the boss and she has no solace. This is typical pair behavior. It will be interesting to see how a pair of your lovies behave if you ever decide to put a male and female together. Muffin and Marlee have wood perches, three mirrors in each cage, a swing, and one hanging toy in their cage. They each have one seed and water cup. They love their mirror girlfriends and swings, and also love music of all kinds.

    It is a joy to have you here as a member and to read updates. Good luck with the new setups.
    Last edited by maxollie; 08-04-2017 at 11:23 AM.

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