RIP Kiara: 2016 - October 2018

[marroqui]

I cannot believe I am sitting here and writing this. I never thought I would have to post on this part of the forum so soon.

Ellen, I saw your reply last night on here to my other thread. Thank you for that. I will make a note on that thread as well soon.

I would like to announce that we lost our little Kiara, today Thursday 11 October 2018 at 12:25 in the day time Australian Eastern Daylight Saving Time. These past few days she has not been feeling well and it was obvious. I am not happy with the service we got at the vet that we took her to on Monday afternoon. I feel that she was not examined properly and prescribed the wrong medicine. We thought we would have a chance to get a second opinion today but sadly, we did not.

This morning she was the same as every day this week - she would still eat a lot but was still going to sleep more. I had an exam this morning, and we had a vet appointment scheduled for this afternoon. My partner dropped me off to do my exam and came back straight away to be with Kiara to give her the medicine. I did not know what was happening but two hours later I was finished and he picked me up and he was crying a lot while driving back home. I asked if she was still alive and he said yes but prepare yourself because she is dying. As we drove, I was crying too. I said maybe we can rush her to our preferred vet, but he said she will not make it in time. He was right. While I was gone he said she looked more weak and that when he held her she felt underweight, despite eating so much. He took her away from Kovu's cage and put her back in her own cage and covered the cage up so she could have privacy. When we arrived home, I went straight to check her. She was on her swing, but he was right, she was really weak. I could see it in her. It was like she was shaking her head, slowly, up and down and blinking a lot. He said I should start changing the food and water bowls of the others while he tries to hold her and feed her. My partner took her into the other separate bedroom and when he uncovered her she was already on the floor of the cage and so he got her out of the cage and said she would not even try to get away from his hand. He called out to me and was crying and saying she is not going to make it and to pray. So I got on the floor and prayed and prayed, begging for her to be saved. I believe it was about 10 minutes later that she died in his hands. He told me she's gone. He held her dead body for awhile and we both cried a lot. I could not believe it when I saw my little kiara stiff. Where was her life? Why did it go? I fell to the ground and just cried and just threw cushions around in the lounge room. My worst nightmare come true. And eerily enough, I had this nightmare LAST NIGHT. I had knots in my stomach this morning but I've been having anxiety attacks and knots every morning this week so I thought it was my worrisome self.

I was a mess for a while so my partner called the vet that we had an appointment with for the afternoon to cancel and to check if an autopsy could be done on kiara and they said yes but they need us to bring her straight away so we brought her there and signed the documents and approved a cremation for her. It all happened so fast, my partner decided everything on the spot. This was at the first vet we ever saw to take our little Asha to check her flight feathers. Whilst we have another preferred vet, this one is local, completed studies on birds, and it turned out he was right about Asha and her flight feathers. Dropping off kiara at the vet was the last time we saw her. The next time we see her will be next week to pick up her urn.

In the late afternoon we heard from the vet who had done the autopsy. He said everything looked normal, but that there were abnormalities in Kiara's liver. He also confirmed that she was female. He asked about her cage, and we described it, and he mentioned sometimes there are paints on the cages that when ingested is not good for birds. However we said her cage was new and still cleaned even when purchased new. I am hoping to talk with the vet next week when we pick her up to check what could have caused the problems in her liver. My partner broke down in the afternoon and said he wanted her back to bury her instead of cremation, but the vets said they cant hand her back anymore because of how the organs were handled or prepared for the autopsy and said a cremation will be better. He mostly just wanted to hold her again.

Everything happened so quick in a matter of hours. We are devastated that this happened. I'm trying to be strong to be there for the other birdies but it is really hard. We cleaned up the other birdies cages. They didnt seem to notice that Kiara was not around yet, however Kiara was mostly quiet this week. I keep wondering if we could have done something different that would have changed the outcome, both now and in the past. Kovu did call out but I'm not sure if she was calling to kiara or to us because she always calls out to us to come and get her so she can play on our arms for awhile. I have cried on and off today. My partner has cried most of the day.

I'm sorry for this post being so long. I hope I have not dragged anyone down with my crazy emotions. It is night time here now. I'll go to bed soon because I've been up since very early in the morning and have only eaten the bare minimum. My partner hasn't eaten all day and I'm worried about that with all the driving he has done today but he went to bed as soon as we put the other birdies to bed, but I heard him crying. I cried too as I tried to eat dinner alone but could barely eat a lot, just enough to ensure my stomach has enough food to take medicines for my migraine. I am worried about how we will cope. I am going to try to be strong for the other birdies because eventually they will realise kiara is no longer around.

I would also like to say thank you to everyone on this forum for always providing advice and comments everytime I come by. I hadn't been on here for awhile as the last few months were hectic, but I feel like I can always turn to my virtual tailfeather friends on here in times of need.

To my little Kiara, I feel you were a happy little girl. You lived a good two years. At least I think you were two years old and maybe a few months more, according to your breeder. I wish I could have done more for you sweet little girl. I hope you have now arrived at the rainbow bridge and that many of the beautiful angels that left this earth before you are there waiting for you to make you feel welcome, until we meet again. But I really miss hearing your voice and chirps. Especially in the mornings. You and Luna were the first to wake up and do the flock call. It has been 9 hours and I miss you like crazy.

[maxollie]

((((((((((hugs)))))))) Laila. I am so very sorry you have lost Kiara. I am crying, just reading your post, and I know how heartbreaking it is to tell them goodbye. Personally, I feel you will be glad you cremated her. You can place her in your home, or bury her outside. They have some beautiful pet stepping stones you can find on Amazon, that really enhance the burial site, if you choose outside burial.

She was very young to have liver disease, or at least some sign of it. And I know from your posts you feed an awesome diet to your birds, and to me, there would be nothing you feed that would cause liver problems. It could be genetic as well. As humans, we do not know our DNA, or why people get sick and pass away. I think birds are no different. And the majority of breeders do a great job, hatching chicks and then selling them. But they often cannot determine the DNA of their stock either, because they have to find new stock to breed on occasion to keep their breeding practice going.

As to cage paint, here in the USA, the cage makers use non toxic paint to spray a cage, before they sell it. I think that is pretty much standard practice all around the world. I worry most about toys that are for sale at retail shops. Even though wooden toys painted with non toxic paint are supposed to be safe, I never trust them 100%. Like you and your partner, I dearly love my birds, and work so hard to keep them clean, healthy, and happy.

I know Deanna will stop by and post her thoughts. She had extensive challenges with her Boomer, and had an excellent vet, who did many tests on Boomer. I know her thoughts will be informative and helpful to you.

All caged birds could accidentally ingest some foreign object, when flying free, or playing inside their cage. I also thought of diabetes, because Kiara loved her fresh fruits and veggies, and you wrote about her eating alot and drinking lots of water. To me, the drinking lots of water could have indicated a sugar problem, because humans that are diagnosed with diabetes, often feel the need to drink lots of water, and crave sugar, which then causes a drop in insulin, and they have what I call a sugar bust, and become very tired. Without the proper insulin level, they can pass out. You mentioned her eyes were barely open.

I am hopeful you can find an avian vet, perhaps even on line, that you can consult. Tell them about Kiara's history, what she ate, and drank, her energy level and her recent behavior. Hopefully, they can give you, at least, share some idea of what may have happened. There will never be 100% closure, because you and your partner were so very bonded to her, and until now, never had sick birds at all. But knowing she did not have to suffer a long, long, time, is of some solace.

We are here for you Leila. Writing or journaling is a healing experience that helps you to mourn. Take all the time you need. And know that Kiara is flying high over the rainbow bridge, and is at peace now! She loved you dearly, just as you loved her. And she will wait there for you to join her, and take her with you on your way to glory!

You and your partner have my sincere sympathy.

[boomer girl]

Oh my gosh Laila, I am so very sorry your sweet Kiara has died. I too am crying like crazy for you and your partner. Its just so sad you lost her so quickly. I know how awful it feels to lose your loved bird. It really does take a huge piece of your heart when you lose them. Your partner had to be dying a little bit with her as she passed. I held my big dog as he was given a shot to put him asleep and felt him leave me. It tore my heart out to hold him as he went limp. I ran out of the office when we had Boomer put to sleep because I just couldn't do it again. He took his last breath with my husband holding him. John still tears up when he talks about Boomer. It will hurt you forever losing her but it does get better. I am happy you cremated her. Oddly knowing you still have them and can hold them comforts you more then anything. She will be home where she belongs and you can hold her. I still hold Boomers urn sometimes and this peace comes over my body and it now makes me smile. Our birds are such perfect souls. Lovies have the sweetest face and there fat round bodies just make them such a perfect bird.

I hope your vet took tissue and is having it tested. Hopefully it will show what killed her. Things can be spread to your flock so only testing tissue will give you the knowledge that whatever she had cannot spread to your flock. Boomer had Avain Gastric Yeast that went systemic. His body shut down.

Kiara was loved and this is what made her happy. She is now your perfect angel that will be with you in spirit. Without a doubt Boomer hung around for awhile in spirit here. He knew how to comfort us and I hope Kiara will find a way to comfort you and your partner. Loving our birds is easy but losing them causes such pain but time heals that.

Sending you big hugs and love and we are here for you. I love this poem and it helped me when I grieved for Boomer http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/c...Lend-Me-a-Bird

Fly free sweet little Kiara... You were loved.

[marroqui]

Ellen and Deanna, thank you so much for your kind words. They do help a lot.

We are still not feeling so good. I'm trying to get on and be there for the other birdies, and break down from time to time. My partner still cries a lot too. We just can't believe that all of a sudden she is gone. This time last week, she was chirping, she did her morning and evening flock call. She even had a bath last Friday. And now she is just not here all of a sudden. It just happened so quick. She has never shown any signs of illness, until last Sunday when her poops started to look bad and she started sleeping more often. I tried to read more about fatty liver disease and have begun wondering if that is what it is. I have also been thinking a lot about cage paint. Her cage that she was in alone was brand new from the box and still we cleaned it. However, some months ago we did notice a smell from the crate of her cage, as well as Luna's. We weren't sure what it was but ended up thinking it was the newspapers that we put in the crate, so we stopped putting newspapers there for those two, and put paper towels instead and we didnt smell anything anymore. The weird thing was it was only those two cages. Asha and Ashu's cage, as well as, Nala and Iki's cage are the same design and we've never smelt anything funny from them and they still get the newspapers in the crate. I never thought anything of it but since the vet questioned the cage paint I am now wondering about it. I think that here also that the cages are supposed to have non toxic paint too. We tried to put Luna in a different cage yesterday but she didn't seem to like it because she wasnt eating so we put her back to her original cage and she went straight to eat.

That is another concern. Luna, our peach faced lovebird. She was Kiara's neighbour since Kiara got her own cage. I never thought that they liked each other because Kiara did try to bite her when we tried to see if she liked Luna being in her cage once. But most of the time they always talked with each other. They made flock calls together in the morning and evening. Kiara seemed to always want to be closer to everyone else though. Not in their cages, but just more near to them to see what they were doing. And now today, my partner thinks that luna has not been eating. She stays in the same spot too. We moved her cage closer to Nala/Iki and Ashu/Asha but they dont really talk with her much,, they are too busy with themselves, not even each other, but them selves playing with toys etc. My partner got luna outside about 4 times to hold her. She isn't tame at all so it scares her and she always tries to fly away. She did eat strawberries from his hand though. and then in the evening just before bedtime we saw her eat from her bowl. But we are still concerned that she also misses kiara, even though kiara was in kovu's cage in her final days. We are scared that she is lonely. Before kiara was situated next to her, nala used to talk with her a lot.

I'm not sure if kiara had diabetes, but I don't think so as she didnt eat fruits, none of the lovebirds are fruit eaters, if we put them fruit they dont eat it, I think they have only ever eaten fruit when we tried to give it to them by hand only. they all prefer vegetables, its only the conures and socrates that love their fruits. However the lovebirds do like a honey stick that we sometimes buy that has a little bit of dried fruits in them. But they dont get them all the time as I've always been concerned with sugar content of them. Kiara was drinking a lot of water this week, but prior to that, she was just drinking a normal amount. I think it was because whatever she had, had progressed severely and made her feel very bad. She could not even poop after Monday. And she looked really bloated and it was as if her colours had changed, and become less colourful somehow, as if she was ill. Deanna, the vet did not send any tissue away for testing. I only know that they mentioned pathology tests can cost a few hundred dollars but that my partner said he wanted all of her body back and not just parts of her too. I am hoping to talk to the vet myself eventually, but so far he did not mention anything contagious just liver abnormalities. Now I am wishing my partner had just said to take tissue from her to be tested. The vet did say everything looked normal, and only the liver was not right.

I just never thought this would happen to Kiara. She was a really strong girl. Kovu is the strongest out of everyone, but I would put kiara as second strongest right after her. Her diet was good, she ate her vegetables, and within her seeds I noticed that she preferred oats and millet and safflower. A lot of them dont eat much sunflower anymore and I usually pick most of them out nowadays.

Thank you Ellen for the suggestions on amazon. And I know you definitely take care of your birds very well too, with all the knowledge you have on their health and behaviour and your experiences with them. They really are special creatures. I have seen a website called justanswer.com with sections where you can message a vet for a consultation and I think it costs money about $50. I've read some consultations on there before and they seem legit. If I still feel uncertain after next week I might give the website a go later on. I think a lot of the vets on there are American based and you seem to have more avian qualified vets there. I think you are right, I do not think, and I hope she did not suffer for too long. I really hope she was ok before this week.

Thank you Deanna for your kind words too. That would have been very painful holding your beloved dog as he went limp. I think you are right, its how my partner would have felt holding kiara. I did not see the exact moment, but he cried that she was gone and then I saw her precious body without life and it broke me too. You and your husband definitely understand how you each felt. I have seen that poem also. I have seen it on this website before. I remember crying when reading it even though I hadn't lost anyone yet. And now reading it after losing kiara, it still hurts but somehow just makes sense. That is so sweet that little boomer hung around. I think kiara was around yesterday too. I had to go and get more vegetables from the fruit and vegetable shop yesterday and as I was walking I heard her voice all of a sudden. I think it was her, Because I heard Kovu's noises and kiara was good at making kovu's sounds. I hope that she was letting my know that she is ok and made it to the rainbow bridge. And on Thursday night when I went to bed, I thought I felt a flutter near my head, like someone was flying past me. Either I am crazy or it was her spirit.

I am glad to know it gets better, because it hurts every morning to wake up and deal with the day again. But I push myself because the other birdies need us. I told my partner, when he feels weak I will try to be the strong one, and when I feel weak he should try to be the strong one.

[maxollie]

No doubt you did feel that "spirit" flutter from Kiara! I have many beliefs about our precious birds, butterflies, and other creatures, which would make people think I am crazy, but I do not care what people think. I am authentic and speak my own truth. I do not follow the crowd. I am a leader, not a follower. God's creatures are special, just as we humans are special. Birds and animals, butterflies, and creatures of the ocean deep, all have spirits! And all, in their own way, inspire us, and teach us lessons of life. Years ago I had a little fish, I named Buddy. When he died, I cried and cried and buried him outside in my garden. I believe every creature, whether birds, fish or other animals deserve to be treated as we would hope to be treated. With love, respect, and care!

[maxollie]

When we purchase bird cages on line, and have them shipped to our home, we never know where the box was setting in the freight truck, nor what, if any poisons to animals, such as fertilizers or pesticides may be in those boxes. And, a retailer, generally uses one or two display cages, and sends home a boxed cage when we buy one.

Like you, I always use white or apple cider vinegar and warm water to wash inside and outside of cage, including perches. And the same goes for toys we buy. I suspect they are sent in lot quantities to the retailer in boxes, and who knows how those boxes were shipped.

I honestly do not think this was the case with Kiara, as far as the cage or toys. It was very sudden, which makes me think she either swallowed something, or got a fungal or bacterial infection somehow. I think diabetes would show a slow change in a bird, not a sudden change. We do know that birds can cleverly hide an illness.

As to Kovu, do keep an eye on her, because they do mourn the loss of one of the flock.

[Birdmanca]

Sorry about your bird passing. Looking at her photo I see why you would like her. She looks both cute and loveable.

[boomer girl]

I think she did come back to you and wanted to tell you she was OK. Reading your words about how you heard her cheep to you was what my husband said he heard a few times after Boomer died. He heard the calls behind our backyard fence where the wild birds hang out in the manzanita bushes. He said he clearly Boomers chirp at two different times which made him feel sad yet it helped him know it was all OK. Losing our birds is so very hard and I think all of us here understand your grief and worry you have about your other birds.

If they vet looked over her body and only found liver damage I think it probably was her liver that did this. Some birds are born with bad genes and livers seem to be really effected by this. I would keep a eye on your flock just incase but if you trust the vet then it probably was liver failure.

Sending you hugs and we are here for you and definitely understand your grief. Hugs to both you and your partner.

[marroqui]

Thank you so much Bill, it means a lot that you came by here to say those kind words. She definitely was very adorable, and very loveable, and she loved to be fed seeds from our hands, and any tameness that she had was thanks to her little friend Kovu. They loved to come outside of their cages together and perch on our clothes and preen each other. Or they would preen the jacket.

Thank you Ellen and Deanna too. I think you are right she did come by and straight away the same day to let me know she's better now and not suffering. Each day is still hard but know that time will eventually help us manage the pain. I have to be strong so I can look after the other birds. My partner is struggling more than me. He breaks down randomly. I get worried when he breaks down when he's driving. I still had to attend two more exams this week unfortunately and he always needs to drive me to the exam centre, and he always plays sad songs in the car and starts crying and I would worry about him driving back home. He still has the shirt that he was holding her in when she passed and he tied it into a ball and hugs it when he sleeps. We still have her cage too, it is in the lounge room and he put a little tea light candle in it, but it does not use fire it uses an actual light so he keeps it on and covers the cage every night. We still have not heard back from the vet about collecting her, but I am still hoping to have a short time with the vet who did the autopsy to get some closure and hear for myself what he found. At least she got to spend her last few days with kovu in kovu's cage.

I really like your views on life Ellen, and I am always trying to be the same too. My little kiara is with god now, and I was always taught that all animals will go to heaven, and they do not get judged by god. That is true about the cages and I think the one we got for her, was still in the box from the shop, we had to set it up ourselves at home, when normally they always have a couple already set up in the shops. I am still at odds about what the cause of her abnormal liver was. I vaguely remember my partner saying something about a string that shouldn't be there, but not an actual string, but rather describing as an example I think of the abnormalities but not necessarily a string, but I need to hear it from the vet, I just could not handle it on the day to call the vet myself. I've started to think a lot about her behaviour the last few months. She had been separated from kovu for most of this year, and I started to think to myself if that was a mistake and then I see the photo of her with a bruise on her beak from the blood and then I know it wasnt, but we have started to think we shouldn't have separated them for as long as we did. Kovu was just in nest mode and territorial at the time. Since being in a different cage kiara was never the same. She would mostly stay in the same perch and sit. However she would always chirp a lot and was eating and drinking as usual, no more, no less. Even though we put her toys she did not play with them. I think she wanted to be as close to the other birds as possible from where her cage was situated and the perch that she would perch on most of the day was closest. I wonder if it was diet. The seed mix we give them contains everything so that they can pick what they like. But she's always been an oat girl. But also liked safflower and millet. She didnt gobble down sunflower seeds.

On the other hand, at one point I had noticed that Luna was only eating sunflower seeds, and I had posted previously on here about hearing her breathing more louder, something we should not hear. We cut her off from sunflower seeds completely, and we didnt har the loud breathing after that for a long time, but my partner has said he has heard it once or twice. The same with kovu. But now he does not trust any vet around here, and said we are going to manage their diet first and monitor them. Only those two have displayed the loud breathing in the past. No one else. And those two were massive sunflower eaters. But without sunflowers, they go for their oats and safflowers instead, and millet. Everyone else hasn't ever been massive sunflower eaters, they usually prefer one of the other three mentioned or all three.

The past few days we have also been keeping an eye on Luna. I didnt think she was close to kiara, because we tried to put her in kiara's cage awhile ago, and kiara tried to attack her. But they were neighbours and I think she liked that companionship. She doesnt eat as much since kiara passed. My partner has to get her and try to get her to eat and that usually works. He will give her a bit of fruit and then when she gets back in her cage she goes and eat on her own, we used to do that with Asha in the beginning too to make her eat. He decided to put her in a bigger cage with nala and iki. Luna seemed happy about that because when she saw them eat she would go and eat too. However they kept trying to bully her. Especially Iki. I was shocked, we let them out to play together yesterday and I had to keep telling Iki to stay away from luna and eventually she did not listen and went for luna's toes and WOULD NOT LET GO. We quickly got the butterfly net to catch her and my partner got luna and she was bleeding from that but we put flour and stopped the bleeding. I was really shocked that iki could bite that hard. And shocked that she hates luna that much to do that. Anyway it has been a week of changes for those three, they have been in and out of the same cages about 5 times already, thankfully they adapt quickly but everytime they were together with luna we had to keep an eye on them. But we cant keep doing that permanently so my partner decided to try to look for another peach faced lovebird as a companion for luna. At first I was objective because I said its too soon, its not the solution, we have to quarantine etc. However its for Luna to have companionship of her own species, and I would do the same for any of the other ones if I saw them in pain or lonely. And I know that I would love any bird that we ever have here. They are all special and unique. There is no guarantee she would like a new bird nor will they like her but if not, then they could at least talk to each other from separate cages, like she did with kiara next door to her. We think she misses having someone that talks like her because kiara started mimicking her sounds, and she mimicked them perfectly. The others kind of but not perfectly. And the others always go to the other sides of their cages instead of closer to her. At the moment not much luck as no one locally is breeding peach faces, only fishers and masked and we did want to find an older one not a baby too (to not risk Luna bullying a baby). But we will keep trying and to find a healthy one is of most importance too. That was my bigger concern, in good health so not to jeopardise the health of our remaining ones.

Kovu has been very brave. She is a happy little girl. She came to our home with Kiara, they were bonded friends. I still remember they were given to us for free fro my partner's temporary job at a fruit picking place, because kovu was apparently scaring their cats or dogs, can't remember which. Nope not the other way around as nature would intend, little kovu, the size of my hand made herself the boss of a couple of cats or dogs. And little kiara would have been her sidekick. Kiara would always hide behind kovu if she was scared and kovu would protect her. I think that because they were in separate cages most of the year that kovu got used to being in her cage by herself. And she is fine. She is one of those birds that doesnt need a buddy with her 24 hours a day. But she still always enjoyed time out with kiara each day and time out with us if kiara didnt want to come out. She loves her toys and destroys them all. She likes to make nests on top of her rabbit toy. I do not think she knows kiara is gone. Or possibly does but was already used to her not being in her cage, as she only had her for 3 days last week. She is so strong. I watch her happily playing with her toys, tackling them and pulling whatever she can from it and taking it up to her rabbit toy. But I feel bad. I know she's ok but I feel like I let her down. Because we could not save her kiara friend. It has been a week almost. I hope my little kovu forgives me and stays strong and healthy and happy.

[maxollie]

Like you, Laila, I too would be thinking about all that happened in the past year, with Kiara, and Kovu. I do think birds have a strong bond with each other. especially these two, because they were together, even before you got them. A few years ago, I read a post here on the forum, from a person who is a bird breeder. He said that birds having a different brain than ours, causes a different perspective on the word loss, than the one we have. He said that even though the loss of a flock member, will be acknowledged by each flock member, the "feeling" of loss and sorrow we have as humans is not felt like we experience it. The flock simply continues on, procreating, and evolving. And after thinking more about that, at the time, I think his remarks were credible.

I do think birds can have allergies to foods we feed, including sunflower seeds. And I also think there can be things in our home, or the environment in a home, humidity, lack of humidity, etc., which will cause breathing problems in birds. And I also think that store purchased toys, especially ropes, can have shreds, or tiny threads of rope that our birds can ingest.

I think it is a good idea for you to look for another peachie! And, I know you will keep a good watch over Luna, and all flock members!

(((((((((Hugs))))))))))
Ellen

[boomer girl]

Time is the only thing that will heal you and your partners pain and it will take a long time if ever to get over it. Our animals get into our hearts and we just do not ever want to say goodbye to them. I hope your vet gives you some kind of answer so it least you will not have as many "what ifs" floating through your head.

Hugs to both of you.

[marroqui]

Thank you Ellen and Deanna. It always means a lot to read your thoughts and replies here.

That is really interesting to know abut birds and how they react to loss. I have read on the internet that wild birds, for example sparrows, also just continue on after loss and continue to procreate etc I remember reading somewhere that sparrow couples even have a spare male around almost like a friend / butler available incase the male member of a couple passes, so that the female has another male to help her with procreation and looking after eggs or chicks immediately. That made me think they do not feel the same things that we feel as humans after experiencing loss. But I do wonder if it is the same for caged/ indoor birds because they only interact with their immediate surroundings and immediate flock members only. I do wonder if maybe our indoor birds do experience the loss that we experience but for a shorter time? They then perhaps just go and look for a new friend straight away (if the options are around them). But I am not sure. However, I do like the concept, and I hope and wish that it is true that they do not experience loss the same as us especially the pain that we feel. But from watching Luna lately I am questioning it because she always ate a lot and now she doesnt. Nala and Iki are back and forth in a cage with her because my partner notices she eats more when she's with them even though she's scared of them, especially Iki, as nala does not annoy her as much. When he noticed them annoying her he takes them out so she can have privacy but then she still does not eat much. My partner found a pair of baby peach faces for sale from someone but an hour an a half away and the person works so if he wants them he cant go until Sunday to get them. We did want to get just one but he also does not want to separate the pair. And due to being babies they most likely won't be in the same cage as luna but we hope that by having company next door of her species will help her. We will see how things go on the weekend, plus they will need be quarantined in the lounge room first but at least she will hear them and hopefully feel well.

As a human, I just cannot understand why bullied birds allow themselves to be bullied. It seems so unfair. And even when Nala and Iki are distracted doing something else for a long period of time, luna has the chance to go and eat without being annoyed but she doesnt. I just hope she is going to be ok and if we get other peach faces that this will help her. Maybe parrots are different from other birds and have more feelings? I know that my little Asha definitely showed signs of feelings when she first came because she couldn't fly like the others and was bullied a bit by Ashi, but she still would find a way to eat, not a lot, but she would sneak over to other areas of their double cage and get some food and we would also get her and feed her too.

Yesterday we went to collect little kiara in her urn. My partner cried a lot. I have not been crying much lately but mostly because my sadness has turned into anger. I feel it was too soon, it should not have happened, this wasnt how things were supposed to be, it was too sudden, and why why why. I wish I could have done more or maybe seen more signs in the past. We were able able to speak with the vet though. While I still dont really have a lot of closure, he did confirm that there was liver failure. He mentioned causes can be a small number of things, but with the cages it is usually old antique style cages that are coated in lead or unsafe paint and he knows how parrots like to go and chew everything even their cages, but we purchased new cages, nothing antique. He mentioned fungal infections can be a cause too but our birds are indoor birds. But he said he examined all her organs very well and everything was perfect, as well as her feathers, everything was perfect in place. It was only the liver, which he mentioned I think in vet terms that was very pale and as if he could see a pattern of spots there that should not be there, which indicates abnormality. The only way to completely determine the cause would have been to send some of the liver to a pathology lab, he said that they test every part for everything, but alas, it is too late to do that and he did mention it can be costly too. I will admit, if I had the choice I would have paid to do the pathology tests, and then buried her naturally, without cremation. But I did not get the chance to say anything and we were both distraught when my partner made the decisions last week quickly. In the late afternoon the day she passed, he did start to ponder and wonder if he should ask for her body back for burial, and he did end up calling to do that but apparently the way the organs were harvested made it so that they could not hand her back to us and said cremation is the best option. The cremation and urn and plaque was more expensive than the autopsy itself. Everything totalled to a few hundred dollars. My partner's brother helped out with paying though which was really kind of him.

The vet also does not believe it was anything contagious either, due to every other inch of her being in good health apart from the liver. I did ask if there is a document that could show these results, he mentioned he was happy to do it, but it would mostly consist of him ticking boxes that would mostly say healthy heart, healthy this and healthy that, but liver failure, so we decided not to do that since he explained everything to us. I mentioned if we are doing everything correct with diet, and he did suggest pellets (as vets usually would) because of their vitamins, and I did tell him how we tried it long ago with the first four birds but that they would never touch them. I was thinking more along the lines of whether we gave them too much sunflowers or not. Or not us, but whether her diet with her previous owners was not so good and that the damage was already done. I still wonder as I'm worried about the remaining birds too.

Now kiara is with us, in her urn, which is on a shelf in the lounge room. Is it safe to have it here, with other birds around? They are in another room, but the house is small. My partner put the tea light candle (with a light not fire) next to the urn. The vets wrapped her ashes in tissue and put it in a little bag inside the urn. Everything was in a little gift bag, and a little card describing the rainbow bridge was in there too, I think it is the same description that appears here on the forums too, with an unknown author. I hope this rainbow bridge is real and that my little kiara is happy there in excellent health and playing with all kinds of creatures big and small.

[boomer girl]

I am happy you have her back and she is home again with her flock. She is fine to be with your flock because she is just as now. I got to ask, did you open her urn? I never opened Boomers because I know it would be so sad to see just ash. I have my two dogs ashes here too and never opened them either.

Trust your vet about lived disease but I don't think it was anything you did but something might have been wrong with her lover forever. It happens and you even if you knew and tried to help her it might not have helped. Milk Thistle seed is great for livers. I think you can give your birds just a few a day for keeping livers healthy.

I hope each day you both feel better. Losing the ones you love is always hard.

[maxollie]

Thank you, Laila for the lovely post. I am happy you have Kiara back home, and in her little urn. One thought I have would be to get a DNA test for the two new peachies, because if they are siblings, a male and female, you would not want to cage them together, because birds that are related, should not mate and hatch chicks. The chicks can be deformed or have special needs.

I do agree with you about caged birds feeling more of a loss of a flock member than out in the wild birds. By seeing their reaction to a missing member, I do wonder what their bird thoughts are! I know of caged pairs, when one dies, sometimes the other one dies as well. So I support your thoughts.

It does seem very strange to me of Kiara's liver disease, because I was of the understanding liver problems generally show up in older birds. As you know, I am still on the fence with pellets. I feel that a good seed mix has vitamins in it as well. And with only seeds, one can buy a bottle of birdy vitamins and add some to the seed mix. If feeding pellets, then, from what I understand, one should not feed extra vitamins. I am from the old school, and feel that natural seeds are more geared to a diet wild birds would find and eat.

No matter what may have caused her passing, it truly is sad for you, your partner, and all your flock!

[marroqui]

Thanks Deanna, I have also heard about milk thistle being good too. I think humans take it as a supplement too. I'd have to do more research though. We did not open and look at kiara's ashes. When we first received it and were sitting in the waiting room waiting to speak to the vet my partner did open the urn but he did not see her ashes because they wrapped it in a bag or tissue to avoid spillage and tied it with a bow so while he opened the urn, we did not look actually see the ashes themselves. I can understand that it would be have been too hard to open them for your beloved dogs and little boomer. I also don't think I will open it. My partner did tell me that when it is his turn that he wants me to open it and spread it in his grave though. It is still difficult to deal with and at the same time I'm concerned about the well-being of everyone else too so that provides a bit of a distraction in a way. I also put a new update post in the lovebirds forum to distract myself a bit too and to introduce the two new peach faced lovebirds as well, whom arrived yesterday.

Thanks Ellen as well. I would prefer to get DNA tests too but I feel uneasy pulling the feathers. I wrote a new post in the lovebirds forum introducing the two new peach faces and providing an update on the others and a link to photos but I'm also not sure if the two we got are related, he was supposed to pick up a pair of green bonded ones, but brought different ones of different colours too. I only know the ages and possible genders. I also am a bit more old school and this its better to give natural products. I don't mind giving a little bit of pellets, but I would not give it as a sole diet for the birds, and they do not eat them even if I put a little. I think they are smart little birds, they know when they need more of something. My little Asha for example knows she needs more calcium so goes for her cuttlebone and then started having more spinach a few weeks ago too perhaps for more iron or maybe even more calcium. And if they eat vegetables I think that's even better too. It's healthy for everyone. I am definitely aware of inbreeding though and will be absolutely monitoring the situation with the new peach faces. They are only 10 weeks old so hopefully there is still a bit of time before hormones and maturity kick in and they were brought ti give companionship to luna too so I'm hoping they will get along with each other as a three, whether it is in the same cage or separately. If I find that they are male and female siblings though then they will be separated, I do not think they are the bonded pair that we thought they were anyway.

That's what I thought about kiara too, too young for liver disease. However the vet said he would conclude liver failure, but did not mention disease. I do wonder if it was genetic, as you mentioned previously as well. We do not know where they came from. Well my partner did obtain the number of the breeder when we first got them to check what the leg ring on kiara meant in terms of date of birth or gender etc but that was a long time ago and he doesnt have the phone number anymore, and from what we know they were with two previous owners before us so not sure what they're lives were like beforehand or their diets.