needing help with budgie

[boomer girl]

We do not know how Boomer got the AGY and it hid so deeply inside of him that even his vet had a very hard time finding it. It is possible I picked it up from someones bird or at a bird shop and brought it home to Boomer. It didnt come from his vets office because he never went to a vet until he got sick with it. It took almost 2 years to diagnose it because it hid so well in him but we were treating him for it about 3 months before she finally found it. Helen, Pixibubbles, treated her sparky with citric acid in her water and we used Diflucan which kept it at bay but didnt get rid of it.

Birds with stomach problems are always the hardest to treat. I do recommend only good quality seeds and only pellets that are all human grade foods with no additives in it. Natural things are always the best for digestive issues. A little apple cider vinegar in water helps too but just a tiny bit and not everyday.

[marroqui]

Thanks Deanna. Poor little boomer. That would have been so hard to see him suffering and not knowing what the problem was. May I ask what were his symptoms? From what I have Read there doesnt seem to be a cure for AGY just medications to manage it? My partner is the only one that handles the birds in the garage, and he doesnt handle the doves or pigeons as they do their own thing. He has a shower every time he comes back inside from the garage to avoid spreading anything. I only go to the garage from time to time to just see what is going on there and check on the doves. It is more his space for rehabilitating and releasing wild birds when needed but he hasn't done that for awhile. I mostly stay in the house with the lovebirds and other ones.

We do get good quality seeds in bulk now. They are made locally in a suburb about an hour away from here. The only pellets that are sold in shops here are the vetafarm brand. We give that to the conures because they love pellets with their seeds and fruits. Sometimes we will sprinkle some now on the other ones but not all the time. Iki (one of the lovebirds) has recently taken a liking to pellets too. She did lay two eggs previously though so probably she felt the lack of nutrients and felt the pellets replenished that. I think Araik and Angel the peach faces have tried the pellets too. I don't force it on them but if they pinch some for a little bit of added nutrients that would be good. But everyone gets their fresh veggies regularly.

The budgie is also now eating from the good quality seed mix too. Since that day that she wasn't eating, she has been eating a lot again. So it was just the one day that happened and I'm not sure why. But now it seems the crust is slowly coming back to her eye / cere again. My partner noticed it yesterday. I didn't notice it yesterday as it looked normal to me but when I looked again today it seemed like a bit of crust had developed again near the cere part near her eye. This makes me even more hesitant to bring her in the house. I don't know what is going on. But the garage is warm all of the time and my partner is leaving the oil filled heater there turned on for longer during the night and goes to turn it off before our own bedtime to keep warm there. I wish I at least knew if what is wrong with her is contagious. And if it's treatable.

[boomer girl]

I think mites that cause them to get scaly face but I am not sure. I once took care of a flock of budgies here for a week and half of them had scaly brown stuff on their ceres and beak. Some of them looked awful but it didnt seem to bother them at all. Thankfully we didnt have any birds here so it wasnt a problem to bird sit for them. I wonder if the mite treatment didnt get rid of all the mites on the budgie?

AGY is treatable if caught early. Boomer hid his too long to treat correctly. He was happy and lived it least 3 years with it but I really did learn how to feed him the foods that didnt cause him grief and what to do to make him comfortable. He had ulcers in his crop which no doubt hurt him. They found it in him about 6 months before he died so it was just too late even though she treated him for it almost the whole time he was sick. With Boomer I noticed a head and neck twitch stretch thing he did especially after he ate. He would stretch his head sort of up and back and then jerk his head a few times. His vet told me it was him stretching out his crop and esophagus to open it up to let the gas out that had to be way down in his gizzard (belly). He did this jerk thing a few times and seeds would come up which he swallowed right back down. It broke my heart seeing him do this because it distressed him and must of hurt him. Just typing this made me get teary eyed because sweet boomer fought so hard to get better and had to be in pain He was happy though and he got the best loving people and vets to help him. His vet use to take him in her office just to monitor him when he was really sick because she too had to have loved him. The office people laughed at him because through out it all little boomer was a horny bird and humped anything that fit between his legs... silly little bird! As she said he was "super" bird because he lived with it for over 3 years because we were all smart enough to figure out what hurt him and flared it up and gave him good things. No sugars at all, no spicy things and lots of lovings. He ate roudybush pellets and good fresh seeds his last years of life and was happy.

Warmth and good quality seeds are to me the best thing. Always lots of fresh water and of course love. Love make us all feel better and gives us strength to get well again. I hope this little budgie will thrive and get well again and hopefully you can find a vet that can help it out so it can become a member of your household and live the good life it deserves.

[marroqui]

Oh Deanna it brings tears to me eyes reading about boomer's struggle too. I can just picture what a sweet little fighter he was. I don't think any bird wants to be sick they just want to live and thrive forever. It breaks my heart thinking about birds who are ill especially through no fault of their own or their owners. Maybe age does get to them eventually like it can with humans sometimes.

I am also wondering if the mite treatment didn't treat the budgie properly either. I just do not know. I get so confused. I know that we can't really see mites ourselves, but I had read if we use clear or white coloured blankets they can appear as dots and the budgie does have a white blanket as her first layer and no dots have appeared. Or maybe if it was mites, they have gone now but did too much internal damage. So far she is still the same, eating a lot and mostly resting during the day. I think from her seed mix she eats the millet and canary seed. I think the canary seed is healthy? And she does eat green vegetables too. My partner will feed them to her and she eats them. I think she is getting used to my partner though. She can step up on his finger. But she makes cranky sounds when he tries to grab her sometimes. I can't describe her sound properly but I suppose picture a regular cranky budgie? But she still has the crust re-developing again. She is also gaining more flight when she flies. She can fly further around the garage now so she must be gaining some strength back.

We made an appointment with a vet here, one of the local ones, for next Thursday so in a week's time. This vet is always booked out and was out of the office for a long time from an accident. But at that clinic he is the only one who knows somewhat something about birds (this is not the one with some qualifications on birds, its the other one who we took Nico to last year when she wasn't well). Partner really wants the budgie to see him for some reason because he studied or observed budgies and Australian birds in the desert or something. Well he did help our Nico last year and appeared to have better knowledge than the first time we saw him. He's just hard to get an appointment with which is usually why we end up at the other clinic with the vet that does have the qualifications because he usually has more appointments available at shorter notice. I probably would have picked the vet with the qualifications though but hopefully next week goes well nonetheless. They should reserve some appointments for birds with him so that us bird owners get a quicker chance and let the cat and dog owners be with the other vets more. They have a lot of vets at that clinic who all specialise in dogs and cats so it feels unfair that this guy gets booked out too quick.

I am hoping the vet can figure out what is wrong and treat her too. We were hoping to eventually get her a budgie friend once she's 100% better. I agree love makes us all feel better! And warmth and quality food! For both humans and animals.

[beautifulbudgies]

Hello! I dont presume to know very much about budgies, at least I mean I need to learn more, but the inability to gain weight and beak overgrowth seems indicative of a liver disease. The crust on her eye could be a sign of an infection, and I'm more inclined to think of it as an infection that to be from mites. Liver disease can lead to a decreased ability to fight off infection.

Here is a link about Fatty Liver Disease. https://www.lovinghands.com/forms/He...%20Disease.pdf It says obesity is a symptom, but it would make sense that perhaps this bird lost the extra weight after becoming obsese, perhaps due to it presumably living outside when your shopkeep found it.

This is purely conjecture and I am not sure you should put too much stock into what I'm saying, but I figured I'd mention it just in case. Thank you for taking this bird in and getting it veterinary help. I hope things go well for both you and birdy.

[marroqui]

Hi Amber, nice to meet you and thank you so much for your input too. I do think it could possibly be liver problems as well. We had a lovebird pass away last year due to liver problems, which was heartbreaking because it happened all so suddenly over the course of a few days and before we knew it our precious kiara was gone. And we feed our birds good diets so I did think it could have been something genetic or her diet before we got her and her friend kovu wasn't good.

However, apparently tweety the budgie is gaining more weight now. But it is possible she may need her beak trimmed from time to time. And the crust on her eye is my main concern too. As well as the feather surrounding her beak which appear, I guess I could say crusty? a little bit more white in colour than her pure yellow colour? This is what makes me hesitant to being her into the house to be near the indoor birds, incase of an infection. But in saying that, I think she is really warm in the garage, and the doves are there in their own cages too (they've always lived outside even before we were given them) and make soft noises throughout the day so she's not lonely and if she needs more rest she can get that rest there instead of in the house which can get quite noisy with the medium sized birds.

We have a vet appointment tomorrow morning so I really hope it goes well. We dont have avian vets where I am. Only one vet studied birds and can treat common illnesses (and has helped our conure in the past when she was ill) but doesnt specialise in avian medicine. The one we are visiting tomorrow is probably similar, maybe a little less knowledge, but I think he has studied Australian birds in their natural habitats. He does have better knowledge than the first time we ever saw him though. I just hope they can tell us what is wrong and if she can be treated and if she is contagious.

Thanks again for your input. I'll update here once I know more. I usually never posted much on the budgie threads before and usually dont post replies on the budgie threads either because I mostly have lovebirds. But I think now that tweety is here, I may just pop onto this part of the forums a bit more!

[marroqui]

Ok I have an update - the vet saw her yesterday. He did think that she should not be so tired all the time after over a month of being with us and being cared for and said she seems to just look too sleepy. I forgot to mention she does have a bald patch on her head. He did wonder if she had been attacked beforehand. And like me, he was concerned about the white patches of feathers surrounding her beak. Partner kept saying maybe its from when he feeds her fruits and the water sticks around ,but he also said he has bathed her before so it shouldn't stay like that. She also has a slight shiver in her tail, something that ashu had when she wasn't feeling well, and same with Nico the conure. Anyway the vet was able to handle her as she is quite small and she doesnt bite. Maybe because she's weak? Anyway the vet said he can see she is not at 100% health just yet.

Well he also saw her poop which he said looks normal. He said he would be more concerned if the white part of the poop wasn't showing if it was too watery which it wasn't so no kidney problems according to him. And her poops are smaller because she is a smaller bird. I did mention to the vet that sometimes her poop gets stuck in her bottom but he didnt seem too concerned about that because the colouration and consistency of the poop appeared normal. He also knows about how to tell males from females with their ceres etc, so I think that the birds he has observed or studied would have mostly been budgies or other Australian birds.

He prescribed her psittavet which was also given to our conure in the past and is supposed to clear up any bacterial infections. She will be given a pinch in the morning for a week and if there isn't any improvement he said to bring her back and he can see if he should rub avimec on her (something for mites). He doesnt think its mites though and thinks that she has suffered a lot of trauma. And that she's a cranky little bird lol. Because if we move her bowl or try to catch her she makes a cranky soft little chattering sound. She did the same when he tried to pick her up from her carrier.

We asked if he thinks she has something contagious, he thinks not, but just as a precaution she will stay in the garage for a bit longer while she's taking the medicine. We still need to get her another cage that would be used for indoors anyway which we haven't done. It's more quieter there too with the doves and its kept warm with a safe oil filled heater until we go to bed ourselves. The birds indoors are quite loud, especially the medium sized ones and now socrates the ringneck keeps shouting from 6 or 7 in the morning which no doubt will disturb her resting. and rico the red conure shouts at night for an hour after bedtime.

I hope the medicine helps her. If we do have to take her again to the vet I will need to check when it will be safe to get her a friend. I think she is ok with the doves around but probably she would like one of her own eventually but I don't want to risk exposing a new bird to anything either especially since they would be in the same cage.

[maxollie]

It sounds like the vet did a good evaluation on Tweety. I hope the meds will help. I admire you two for the great care you give her, and all your flock! We will welcome updates.

[boomer girl]

I am happy the vet said they think she is going to be fine and didnt find anything wrong with her. Poor girl must of had a rough life before she found her way to you and your partner.

[marroqui]

Thanks Ellen and Deanna. So far she still seems the same. Just sleepy all the time. She just sleeps and eats. And again, on Friday she went all day without eating again. This is the second time that this has happened. But come Friday night, she ate a tiny bit. Then yesterday was eating like normal. So far I'm not sure if the medicine is doing anything. I know that it will clear up any bacterial issues if there is one. But if it is not a bacterial issue then it is not going to do anything. And why does she lose her appetite all of a sudden? I do wonder if she will feel better if she had a friend, but without knowing what exactly is wrong, im a bit hesitant to expose a new bird to anything.

However, this morning I was trying to do some research on Lutino budgies. I discovered another name for her is albino budgie. Is that correct? Lutino and albino are the same thing? And upon seeing pictures of healthy albino budgies on google, I noticed that they are supposed to have the white patches on their cheeks? Tweety has that. But I thought she shouldn't have it and it was on my list of "what's wrong with her". But upon reading more on albino budgies it says that they do have white / silver colouring / patches on their cheeks. For me this is a good sign. It means I dont have to worry about the white on her cheeks. So that is one less thing to be concerned about. But she isn't out of the woods yet because she still has the crust, and her poop still gets stuck on her bottom sometimes even though she makes regular poop that drops to the ground. And the bald patch on her head. And still being sleepy after 5 weeks. I know it takes time to recover from things, even little Ashu the lovebird took very long to recover but I think she started to chirp again after at least 3 weeks to a month even though she was on and off.

I will try to get an updated clearer photo of her today if I can. But if there is anywhere where I can learn more about albino budgies (assuming that's what tweety is) I'd like to learn more about her so I know what is normal and what is not. We are thinking to take her to a vet that is about an hour and a half away. Apparently that vet clinic has an avian certified vet there. But we have never been there, and its possible that they might not accept patients that live further away like us. but I did suggest this to my partner, as being a sedentary and sleepy bird right now she may be able to handle the car trip in her carrier. He wants to learn more about that vet though before deciding to go there or not. I just figured in a clinic with avian certification they might have more tools to examine birds, such as being able to examine their poop properly. Either that, or back to the local one again. The one we went to is always booked out so it will be hard to get in with him again.

[boomer girl]

I am sorry she doesn't seem to be healing. I would hate not having really good vets close by for our birds. We are blessed to have amazing vets here. Well they are a hour away but we live in a remote area here. Hopefully you can figure out what's going on with this little bird. I would be hesitant of getting a friend for it until you know it is truly getting better. I really hope you can get her to the avian vet at the clinic.

[marroqui]

I wish we had an avian vet nearby too. We rang the vet clinic an hour away and they are claiming the vet there is not avian certified and that she just has experience with birds. It is weird because on the list of avian vets in Australia, she is one of two people listed for Tasmania, the other guy being 4 to 5 hours away in Hobart. This guy even mentioned her when we rang him 2 or so years ago to enquire about Asha and her flight feathers. He's actually American too. Not sure when he did his studies over there though. But I think he's been in Australia for many years now. Anyway there is no point to travel that one hour anymore if she is not certified because they also do not have facilities for further testing that an avian vet would have. So we made an appointment for two days time with the other local vet, the one whose studies consisted of birds a bit. I am hoping he will be able to figure out what's going on with tweety. I feel that he would at least have access to labs too, not at the clinic but if needing to send samples of something he would know where to send. I am hoping he can take some of her poop and send it away for examination or something.

I actually think this particular local vet clinic, and the one an hour away are owned by the same corporation. It is not owned by a particular person, but rather a corporation. And another vet clinic where I had to go and get the collar for Ashu in December, about 5 minutes outside of our town, I think they are also owned by the same corporation. Their website designs are exactly the same. And I have seen them advertise jobs once or twice for a vet nurse or receptionist on the internet, and it has the corporation name rather than the individual clinics, and the jobs mentioned having to work between 2 clinics.

Deanna I kind of wish I lived where you lived. It sounds nice. Although remote, it sounds like you still have necessary service nearby. It's ridiculous that none of the vet clinics here make the effort to hire avian certified vets. There are avian vets in other regional/rural parts of the country. I'm thinking we need to relocate with all the birds. I'd need a private jet just to fit everyone on a plane

[boomer girl]

We actually are far away from the big cities but not too far. Boomers vet was a hour away in good traffic but well worth the drive to see a really good vet. Poor Tikki gets car sick horribly so every time he has to go down there he throws up it least 5 or 6 times which is just awful because the reason he is going there is he is hurt or sick to begin with. Its just miserable to see him throwing up I do have to say or vet also had many other vets working with her in her office and no one else was actually certified but they still were very good with treating birds. My vet is a mentor to people who have gone to the UC Davis collage here to study to be a avian vet. Once they get out of school they have to do a few years with vets like our avian vet before they can be certified. UC Davis here has the best of the best doctors and vets and we are blessed to be able to be able to go them. My personal doctor is UC Davis as well.

[marroqui]

Oh poor little tikki. I never thought a bird could get travel sickness. It would break my heart too. Hopefully you do not have to take him to the vet too often. I am the same. I do not do well in buses or cars, and will get sick at random times which is why I do not have a drivers licence. I never needed it either because I grew up in Sydney, but have found it difficult in Tasmania to be without it at times. The only mode of public transport are buses or taxis. Everyone just drives, except me. I always have to ask someone to take me somewhere that needs a car to get to. It doesnt bother me too much as it is not too often and I can walk to most places like the supermarket when the weather is good, but sometimes it gets annoying. Your avian vet sounds truly amazing. I wish I was there and could take my birds to see her too. UC Davis must be a great place for studying all kinds of medicine if they are producing really good doctors, both for humans and animals.

[marroqui]

We brought Tweety to the other vet today. I was quite happy with his examination of her. He noticed that she permanently tilts her head sideways a lot, which indicated trauma or damage possibly to her skull or a fracture. He also mentioned her eye did look like it was bulging a bit, which was likely due to said trauma. He put on some glasses which were magnifying and had a light on them and examined her head and eye and did not think mites were an issue. We did tell him that she got scaly face and mite medicine two times before we got her. He said we can put it again as a precaution or we could put a tiny dab of oil instead. He said even pure olive oil would be fine but just a very small dab near her nose, not eyes, and if mites were an issue it will stop their respiratory system. But he really believed it was trauma from looking at her as he also noticed the bald spot on her head too. And when she stands she does have a slight imbalance. So this actually makes sense. He did not prescribe any medication. I did ask if he thinks it is ok to bring her in the house. He didn't see any issue with it. He did say that when there are mite issues, it usually spreads via DIRECT contact, but it doesnt usually spead to different cages. Most of what he said makes sense, and its probably why she mostly sits and rests all day, perhaps her head doesnt feel so good if he hit it hard on something. I did bring up the poop getting stuck, and how my partner thinks its from sitting a lot and the vet did say yes that can occur, and because of her imbalance as well it can be causing that because she also makes normal poop that drops. She did poop while at the vet and he saw and said it was good and normal.

My partner is planning to bring her inside the house tomorrow. We went and got another cage today so he still needs to set it up. The same cage that Asha and Ashu each have. We will not get a friend for her yet, as the vet also said probably wait for awhile, and that when we do, we should get a baby one because they might be more accepting of her weakness than an adult. He also thought that tweety was smaller than the usual budgie, even the generally small budgies. I learned today that he used to have budgies himself. And mentioned this is possibly due to inbreeding. So possibly tweety's parents were both lutino mutations but brother and sister who mated and produced her.

I will be honest, I am nervous about bringing her into the house. But I get nervous every time my partner brings a new bird, I was nervous about socrates, the conures, and even the peach faces, and they all were healthy. I just worry about my original lovebirds because they are so healthy and I want them to stay that way. I do hope tweety will be ok. I do hope that we are doing the right thing. I do trust this vet's examination of her, even though he is not avian certified, he did better than any other local vet would have done.